INDEPENDENCE IS PONO
Aloha to all,
Hawaii Reserves wants to develop a new community in Malaekahana, Kahuku.
Once again, HRI offers 'affordable housing' as incentive in return for
community support.
Their mainland consultants have crafted phone, internet polling and held workshops "to listen" to you. (Yes. No joke. Some selected residents were paid $100 for interviews.)
Have the consultants given sufficient details and time for you to make an intelligent decision?
It's not easy to question your bosses and leaders in small communities like Laie.
No fear! This blog is created for your comments, ideas, and suggestions.
Results will go to
Mayor Mufi Hannemann and also the President of The Latter-day Saints Church in Salt Lake City, Utah.
Aloha to all,
Hawaii Reserves wants to develop a new community in Malaekahana, Kahuku.
Once again, HRI offers 'affordable housing' as incentive in return for
community support.
Their mainland consultants have crafted phone, internet polling and held workshops "to listen" to you. (Yes. No joke. Some selected residents were paid $100 for interviews.)
Have the consultants given sufficient details and time for you to make an intelligent decision?
It's not easy to question your bosses and leaders in small communities like Laie.
No fear! This blog is created for your comments, ideas, and suggestions.
Results will go to
Mayor Mufi Hannemann and also the President of The Latter-day Saints Church in Salt Lake City, Utah.
Our kuleana to you:
1. Your identity is 100% confidential and will never be revealed to any one.
2. You can use "anonymous" for your comments.
Your kuleana to Independent Kamaaina:
1. No need feel defensive to put a nice word for your company or your boss.
Bosses & Consultants: Don't force workers to manipulate this discussion
cuz
The blog is for ordinary kamaaina to share
their thoughts - telling it as it is.
2.Please share with your friends so we can get the grassroots sentiments of our Kama'aina.
Mahalo!
1. Your identity is 100% confidential and will never be revealed to any one.
2. You can use "anonymous" for your comments.
Your kuleana to Independent Kamaaina:
1. No need feel defensive to put a nice word for your company or your boss.
Bosses & Consultants: Don't force workers to manipulate this discussion
cuz
The blog is for ordinary kamaaina to share
their thoughts - telling it as it is.
2.Please share with your friends so we can get the grassroots sentiments of our Kama'aina.
Mahalo!
208 comments:
1 – 200 of 208 Newer› Newest»Rude buggahs! What gives? We just heard about it and now HRI's website is all closed. Is this another inhouse deal?
-------------------------------
Thank you for your interest in our most recent survey.
Due to an overwhelming response, we have received all the responses that we need for
this current study and so it is now closed.
We hope you'll participate in future research!
The project was an exercise in typical manipulation by local and distant leaders who used glitz and glamour to achieve their preset aims. I participated in this so called envisioning process and left disgusted with how the "envisioning" process went. The facilitators were running the show. Our table was "salted" with HRI employees and spouses who of course towed the line for their masters. When we tried to "envision" our plan, we were told by the facilitator (manipulator) that we could not place our housing options where we wanted to. Our beach recreation area was shot down by the manipulator who said that we should put condos there instead. The whole process was corrupt. I am truly disappointed in the leaders of our church that they would even endorse such behavior from the lord’s anointed. They should be ashamed of themselves. It has become apparent to me that the financial arm of the church has been infected by the greedy who worship lucre.
If and when this comes before the city, I will make the time to testify and recruit others (there are many others who feel like this was a mass mind **** ).
I do support a certain amount of growth. I do not like to be lied to, manipulated, told what is good for Laie by some clueless suit, or treated like a fool by folks with zero connection to this blessed land.
This survey was poorly written and not at all objective. Give the people of this area some credit. Whoever crafted the questions in this survey obviously has issues and I was offended. I want my 15 minutes back!
This survey although not perfect, is far more objective than the one HRI offered. HRI's survey was totally pro-development.
Many of your questions were even more multiplicative than the HRI questionnaire. It is clear that you have your own agenda that has little to do with the good of the people.
LOL. Sounds like HRI is
infiltrating this website already.
The moke who wrote the following:
May 29, 2009 3:34 AM
Anonymous Anonymous said...
This survey was poorly written and not at all objective. Give the people of this area some credit. Whoever crafted the questions in this survey obviously has issues and I was offended. I want my 15 minutes back! May 29, 2009 10:06 AM
Question for you: I'd like to ask you what is "not at ALL objective"? Asking what price range residents can afford is "not at all objective"? Asking whether HRI should focus first on flooding problems is "not at all objective"? Asking you to tell where you work is " not at all objective?"
If this is the kind of OBJECTIVE and thinking cronies HRI has. HRI can have them. LOL.
You're obviously clueless as to how many people were offended that HRI and its consultants do not think that residents can see through their shibai.
The envision Laie survey was a bit more professional and may have been pro-development, but this survey is unprofessional and very much anti-HRI. You have brought up some good points and legitimate concerns, but this survey will not help. The questions and answers need to be less leading and more objective. If you want your points to be heard and considered, try to be more professional. Seriously, go back and read the questions. Your biased beliefs are shouting to us taking the survey.
To the reader who thinks the questions were more multiplicative than the HRI questionnaire, understand you have a choice. My humble suggestion is choose the ones you wish to answer and forget the rest. This was a nice survey option to have.
I personally think this is good for Laie because it gives people the chance to express their opinions. Anonymous is nice so you don't be questioned by HRI's networkers.
people between 30-40 years old do not have an option in the last question. lol
HRI canvased and campaigned for their candidates for the Neighborhood Board. HRI gets its cronies to form a majority on this board. This is like dealing with big bullies in the block. Auwe!
LEONARDI, Jimmy P.K.
PRIMACIO, Junior
ELKINGTON, John (BYU)
KALUHIOKALANI, N (BYU)
MILLER, Kela (HRI)
STEWARD, Les (PCC)
FALE, Richard L(MORMOM)
KALUA'U, Moan(BYU-HRI)
KELLY-PADDOCK, (?)
MATTOON, Creighton U.
LETTS, Dee Dee
This is what consultants do.They put on a horse and pony show to manage and manipulate the process and results.
They work backwards. They know what end result they want and they pick and chose and formulate ways to get to the desired goal.
This process works best with cults or gullible people who never question or dare to think to question. In this case, you also have a workforce to exploit.
But I know many staunch Mormons who have inquiring and trained minds so there is hope!
The big question is whether they want to risk speaking their minds that will bring about the wrath of HRI & its yellow-shirted props.
Aloha.
I'm all confused.
Why is this called EnvisionLaie if Malaekahana is not Laie?
I'm fowarding these comments from the LaieEnvision website. I thought they were interesting reflections even though there are only 8 comments.I have taken out the names. Here it is --
8 other comments
----- on Mon Apr 20th, 2009 at 9:33 p.m. said:Iaorana, I am so glad to hear about this. I heard it from my husband who works for BYUH. Yes we can do something for our community. First if you need help I can help, just contact me. It will be an honor to help you guys. Second, i think we need to inform the community by other ways than just the BYUH or PCC employees, let's get the message to others...I can help again..
----- on Wed Apr 22nd, 2009 at 9:50 a.m. said:As a native of Laie living in Utah, I would like to contribute some ideas on economic development and diversifying the economy of Laie & the North Shore. There are hundreds of former Kahuku graduates and Laie residents living in Utah and the mainland. Most of us would move home immediately if there was a plan for creating more jobs and affordable housing. I recommend that you expand your open house meetings to Utah in order to get more input on creating a viable and vibrant community. There are several of us who are business owners and would be glad to have some input. Mahalo!!.
------ on Thu Apr 30th, 2009 at 7:30 a.m. said:I attended one of the workshop and found it to be fun and informative. However, I think it (intentionally or unintentionally) framed the issues so that nearly everybody had only one opinion --> develop more land. They didn't consider IF we need to develop more land, but rather HOW we will develop it. The reality of Hawaii is that the land is our most valuable asset. While development expands the number of available houses, it fundamentally destroys the rural beauty of our community and does nothing to make the new homes and properties any more affordable than the existing ones. In my opinion, we need to permit more effective use of our existing (developed) land before we even consider expanding the boundaries. The 'elephant-in-the-room' is that La'ie is ALREADY a multi-family property community, it just isn't zoned to be so. La'ie should be re-zoned to multi-family. This would increase the number of available (and affordable) homes without destroying the surrounding countryside. BYU-H should also consider building upwards before it considers building farther into the mountains. By preserving the existing rural and agricultural land, it does not destroy the possibility of future development. That development simply isn't necessary yet in my opinion..
------ on Thu Apr 30th, 2009 at 7:50 a.m. said:I believe the true consensus to the sucess of Laie is that we need to strike a balance between expansion and growth and preservation. This balance needs to benefit ALL community members of Laie and the Koolauloa areas and not just to a few entities and faculty that have dominated the spectrum for decades. Families such as mine, who have lived in Laie for over 100 years have seen BYUH/PCC and HRI have brought to the communities. But they need to do more by taking care of the people who live and die here and not the "bottom-line dollar". "If you take care of the people, the people will take care of you!" .
-------- on Thu Apr 30th, 2009 at 10:04 p.m. said:Following is my input: - Two camp grounds built up towards the mountains at Gunstock Ranch. - Leave Kahuku High School and convert the upper campus to an Intermeadiate school. Then build a new High School, with full recreational facilities (100mtr pool, soccer field, baseball field, tennis courts(6), stadium with a track and football field) next to the school. This way, the school and the community can have a shared useage of the facilities. - Build housing with large lots, and some areas with town houses like at Millilani. .
Continuation:
----- on Sun Apr 26th, 2009 at 1:28 p.m. said:In regards to the article "Presidents Brief Community on 'Envision Laie'", Do such educated and "inspired" men think a HOTEL, and increasing the size of BYUH will solve the problem, or better yet create a vibrant and viable community in Laie. If anything it will make individuals even more reliant on institutional jobs that discourage free agency and foster a blind obedience to upper management and big boss mentality, not to mention push more local people out of their homeland allowing more haole residences and influences. What makes Laie and Hawaii in general so special is the people and the spirit, a spirit that was here long before BYUH and PCC was, and a spirit I know that will still be there when they leave. It seems we needn't skirt around the issue that money and the bottom line of these institutions is the driving factor of this sudden call for change and rennasaince. Maybe if those in positions of responsibility were less concerned about the money, and more about the people(local people), the history of Laie, good or bad, then maybe they would see that in the grand scheme of things it is not as important that the budget balances, but that the people thrive and progress,and are not short changed and put into very difficult positions of following and supporting leadership that they may feel cares very little for the people, culture or native issues, but more for the almighty dollar. But then again that is what business school teaches us isn't it. To quote Steven Covey "there is no such thing as business ethics, there is just ethics..." Also why is it necessary to provide mortgage assistance programs to 'faculty' and not to non-faculty and staff positions, which to me would seem like the salary grades that would most benefit from assistance..
----- on Tue Apr 28th, 2009 at 10:20 p.m. said:I went to the meeting tonight and it was very engaging and informative. We did talk about those who have left the area because of the lack of housing and jobs and got to input where we would and wouldn't want to see growth/expansion. Please share your ideas with your family members who attend tomorrow and have them speak FOR you as well..
-------- on Tue Apr 28th, 2009 at 10:26 p.m. said:We are excited to go to the workshop and Open House tomorrow. Thank you for the website and great advertising on the workshops-it feels more open. We are looking for ways to volunteer and be more involved in the discussions so if there could be a link on the website about ways to do this, that would be great. Mahalo for your efforts..
Von Orgill of the Polynesian Cultural Center is a very wise and humble man. He's not manipulative or deceitful or self-serving. He's the kind of business and church leader model to emulate. Never mind HRI. Aloha kakou.
Aloha to all. You know there is a lesson to learn in all this controversy in Laie. HRI's got to treat people right and fair.
They have a bad reputation. They never learn. When you abuse your power, there is bad karma that is going to come back to bite you sooner or later. You can only try to manipulate for so long.
The church teaches us correct good principles and if we don't implement the principles in our management, there is no one to blame but ourselves. No games. No politics. No cover-up. No building of kingdoms.
It's not the church's fault. It's our own fault. Intelligent and reasonable people can see through all these. So, don't go around saying that there are anti-this and anti-that and we have to be united. United in plantation politics. No ways. That's a bunch of baloney.
Bottomline. We all have a responsibility to be honest,forthright and treat people with respect. That's the only way to have peace and unity in Laie.
If you make a wrong decision, admit it and correct it. Don't go around telling lies and blaming and demonizing others with the positions you have.
Mahalo for this. I like it. It gives people a chance to say what is on their mind instead of just being forced to be quiet. Maybe it's time the people of Laie speak out the truth and not be afraid. If we can elect a black President Obama, we can all speak out. Maybe not.
I agree that Von Orgil is a good man. I just wish some of the other leaders could be more like him.
I took the Envsion Laie survey with an open mind and heart. After answering 30-40 questions, the survey asked "Do you favor development or open spaces?" I personally support some development and I want to preserve open space as well. There was no in between. So I tried to skip the question. The survey did not allow me to proceed. There was no choice for me but to stop involving myself with a program that offered me no real choice. Shibai at its best.
This should be a wake-up call for self-righteous people who think they are God's gift to the community. People can have different opinions and when you are placed in a position of authority, you have to be even more humble NOT LESS. DO you think Governor Huntsman gets questioned for his liberal views?
The way Laie residents were treated during the flood was inexcusable.The way Laie residents were treated when HRI cancelled its proposed masterplan last year was inexcusable. The way that many business dealings are conducted are inexcusable. The way that the shopping center tenants cannot form a tenant association is inexcusable. The way tenants and residents have to put up with the mold and leaks at the shopping center spaces were inexcusable.The way residents are silenced by HRI is inexcusable. We can go on and on of HRI's arrogance. Who is accountable? Do you blame the aggravated community or do you blame management?
you might want to spell kuleana right on this blog post.
Are you kidding or what?
Who gets paid $100 for interview
and who didn't?
Who heard about it and who didn't?
I noticed something interesting on
'pull your heartstrings" media that
HRI created for the workshop.
It never even said who wrote the
script and who produced it.
I thought it was interesting.
i got the feeling that
the consultants thought us
country lolos were real stupid.
They put some kupuna/employees and
some music and our hearts are
supposed to melt and our minds go
vacuum.
The spirit can discern.
Your time is off.
It's not that late :=)
No problem. You are trying to
provide a service.
Many of us concur that HRI is a public relations nightmare for its parent company in Utah. It's been one controversy after another. Bullying, manipulating and elbowing your way through is so yesterday.
You cannot have men who think they are God's gift or are the anointed ones or who become vindictive when their position and authority are questioned. This is bound to be a collision course down the road.
HRI falls very short of what the LDS represents. Go to the LDS CHurch's website and you will get a chance to hear the honorable men and women whose leadership skills are undoubtedly more christian and honest. We believe they live what they preach.
http://www.lds.org
LDS.org is the website to get the official teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Any angle you look at it, it smells. The 3 ecclesiastical leaders in Laie under the HRI President - 2 work for HRI and 1 is HRI fan who has warned members not to criticize HRI. I don't think this can smell any worse because there are a lot of good humble men in Laie who can do the work.
You want to be objective but it's hard not to be suspicious and cynical. The HRI CEO should not be the Stake President. There is be too much conflict of interest especially for those who are too ambitious and vindictive. I'm glad this is going to be sent to Salt Lake because these issues are real. I believe there will be improvement in Laie with spirituality and freedom when there is a separation between church and community issues.Right now, the situation is not good.
Thank you. Reading this and the survey gives me lots to think about that HRI did not touch on at the workshop.
We are not familiar with this process and so everything seemed to happen so fast in the workshop and at the end of the night we have a Plan. But there was no choice because the map only showed one big place you can put all their chips in and that is the farmland in Malaekahana. That's the farmland that HRI bought.
But we still can figure out that it's all planned before it gets to us. We were asked to attend just to make us feel we are part of the process. I don't think we really make a difference except to become tools for them. But it was fun though to think you can plan a city, just like playing momopoly. HRI should have just said - We want to develop Malaekahana -yes or no. That would have been more straight foward and pono approach instead of spending all that mula, beating around the bush, and thinking we are some kind of lolos. It doesn't mean that when LAie people keep quiet, Laie people stupid.Now I think they are going to make their workers to speak up to prove me wrong. But which point does it really prove the point when workers or husbands or wives are told to speak up for HRI or BYU or PCC? Sorry I could take up too much space but you get the idea. Aloha.
The question whether BYU and PCC can survive if Malaekahana is not developed is flawed. HRI is exploiting this point and hiding behind the two non-profit organizations (BYU-Hawaii & PCC) to advance their development goals.
PCC:
PCC's business is based on tourism and the economy. So, whether Malaekahana develops or not is a moot point for PCC. As a tourism-based business, PCC has to upgrade regularly so there is no quarrel there.
BYU:
BYU-Hawaii's sustainability is not contingent upon HRI developing Malaekahana either. BYU-Hawaii's business is the students. I have always wondered why they don't allow more students to come. So much support infrastructure for so little outcome (students).The classrooms can hold more students. BYU should expand dorms upwards to house their students. There are also rental vacancies in the community. Many locals have come to depend on student rentals for decades. BYU-Hawaii should be cognizant of this point.
HRI:
I have not heard one resident say they want HRI's influence to increase in this community. Already, its office has grown so big. For what? HRI should come out and reveal itself as a business developer and be upfront with it. Don't wiggle in and out of the church and for-profit facade. Don't hide behind BYU-Hawaii and PCC. PCC and BYU need each other but they do not need HRI. HRI is a drag to these two non-profits. PCC and BYU-Hawaii do not need to wallow in HRI's controversies.
Paying someone $100 for an interview
sounds questionable. How many residents were paid exactly? What's the reason?
A guest on the Fox News once said that he would rather get advice from the first 50 names in a phone book than hire one Harvard expert. There is a lot of truth to that.
Someone wrote that he/she is all confused about why is this called EnvisionLaie if Malaekahana is not Laie?
I am confused too! Except that it sounds better. EnvisionKahuku or EnvisionMalaekahana doesn't sound
homespun.
How many top heavy management does HRI need to 'manage' Laie?
PCC and BYUH are cutting positions and costs. Why isn't HRI doing it now that they don't take care of the sewer, the temple road yard. They told us they were not responsible for maintenance of drainage during the flood. The main roads like Kulanui looks like Kalihi. There is a high pile of cement at Poohaili that's been there for years. There are not that many leases left to collect. I forget. HRI has to take registrations for PAL and call people to donate blood
and atten community meetings.Seriously the low-wages workers work very hard. But management is top heavy. Less management means being more cost-effective and less of HRI in our lives in Laie. That's the smart way to go.
Good morning!
Come on, you all love a big brother.
It controls your water, your roads, your shopping center, your leases, your Hukilau, your camping, your hikes,your blood donation, your park schedules,your worship. Shoots! HRI even controls where you get buried.
Next it will want to control the minds. Or has it already begun with the yellow shirts brigade. LOL.
Ke Alaka'i, the BYU-Hawaii campus newletter quoted:
President Wheelwright said such growth would require that BYUH “replace all of our single-student dorms, have more of them, and expand our married student housing over the next 10 years. Our goal is to have about 80 percent of our single students and about 90 percent of our married students on campus. We think that’s the right balance, given the size of the community and what they can support. We also need to provide faculty and staff with affordable housing options.”
Question: HRI needs to develop Malaekahana in order for BYU to accomplish this?
“Obviously, one of the critical issues for us is to get the housing designation appropriately situated [on City planning maps] so that the growth of the campus is not limited,” he stressed.
Question: Did you know that HRI was the culprit who asked for the current housing designation on the city planning maps? I was told by the city.
President Orgill continued, “If we’re going to be doing additional new things, we might well need additional land to expand our offerings. We don’t want the development plan to constrain our abilities to do that. That’s all we’re asking for. Don’t pen us in: We’re determined to be around for a long time.”
Question: Did you know that HRI was the culprit who asked for the current housing designation on the city planning maps?
Taking the microphone again, Beaver emphasized that “the real question is what kind of change do we want to promote and protect the things that we feel are important in this area.”
He explained that the City and County’s development plan for Ko’olau Loa, which is currently under review, “does not allow any movement of boundaries,” whereas the Laie entities are seeking the option to expand the university, transfer proposed housing and a town-center from mauka [inland] of the campus to nearby Malaekahana “which is the most build-able area in terms of its topography,” and add some flex space for the PCC.
Question: Did you know that HRI was the culprit who asked for the current housing designation on the city planning maps?
Community input on these proposals will be discussed during the three meetings detailed above, Beaver continued. “We want to invite all Ko’olau Loa residents to participate in those; and we’re told by the City that they’ll be hosting a final community meeting on the City plan sometime in May. When we get that date, we’ll let everybody know.”
Question: How did you invite the Ko'olau residents to participate? By selectively telling Laie workforce and those affiliated with HRI?
Question: When the city plan comes, are the yellow tees going to control the meeting for the Ko'olaula because you are more organized? Is this method fair and pono?
Our families have been hearing about affordable housing before I was even born. Why should anyone continue to hope for this? The Kamaaina survey asks an important question about whether affordable should be built first.
Yes, even before the hotel.
Why?
Because it's always talk and it's time to walk the talk already.
HRI must tell the price now.
Why?
Because it will not be affordable for Laie residents when all is done and said in the next 20 years.
Driving to work this morning, I noticed the Philippino yardmen on Hale La'a. It got me wondering whose company is doing this? Is this company related to someone in HRI? Is this cronynism, nepotism, insider trading or what?
I want to know why RCL and HRI did not share very pertinent information with us. If they said they had listened to the community, I'm sure some of these concerns have come up unless they were just talking to yes people to support their goal. I'm disappointed in the Laie Community Association leaders. It seems like HRI really don't care what will actually happen to the people and community of Laie. They see $$$$$$ in the vacant ag land next door.
One big mistake is hiring urban planners to decide the future of this rural region. That's pretty presumptious on HRI's part.
It is to be expected what the conclusion would be, combined with HRI's pro-development ambitions.
Judging happiness and lifestyle is a very subjective and personal affair.
Many people are happy here because they choose to live here. Otherwise, they would choose to live in Makakilo, Mililani, Kaneohe, or elsewhere where home prices are very cheap.
Who is to say that living off the land and frugal living in a rural setting is a bad thing?
Our children are not spoiled and even though we are not rich, we enjoy the blessings of not living in a noisy place like Haleiwa. Haleiwa is what Laie and Kahuku will turn into if we follow HRI's plans.
There will be peace and harmony when church leaders remember that their callings does not give them the right to judge or censure or control a member's political or social views. They must never cross the line with unrighteous dominion. A couple come to our mind but there is no need to talk about this in public. Everybody knows the elephant is in the living room.
By and large, wise and mature church leaders are very careful. There are just a few bully cases that I know. We honestly don't know of anyone who thinks that it is good to have the controversial HRI CEO also be the Stake President. The question is whether he creates problems with his behavior or whether it is inherently so. PCC Pres Orgill is in the same environment but you don't hear residents spouting serious complaints about him.
The lds.org website on Political Neutrality is a very good one to deal with its members. Control, ambition, manipulation, unrighteous judgment or dominion belongs to the other side.
WOW!
Who's going to deliver these messages to Salt Lake?
Are they going to consider or dismiss you as some kind of anti-HRI zealots?
Life is more peaceful if you do your own thing and don't get involved.
Aloha!
HRI workers are are aware of management controversies. They keep quiet;do their job; and say the right words publicly. It's understandable.
Thank you for the survey. It would be a very big mistake to build the new hotel without taking care of the flooding problems.
The area around Uncle Pupi, and Kalamas and Gellerts, Elkingons get flooded all the time. The vacant land where the hotel is to be built and the place where Iosepa is located is bad.
Flooding has to be corrected before anything else is done. If the hotel goes in, the water is going to channel more into Naniloa loop and Iosepa and Moana.
HRI knows the problem because the floods have happened many times. No excuses anymore. The Laie Community Association sued Zions once on this flood problem and they did some but not enough.
PCC & BYU-Hawaii needs
are not the same as HRI when you
start
to dissect it.
Several random thoughts of ours:
There IS a difference between the entities here:
1. BYUH - non-profit educational
PCC - non-profit mostly
HRI - for-profit/developer
2. Is there something against a female HRI President? Sheri Dew is Deseret Book CEO.
3. What's keeping HRI from changing their game plan? HRI has done it any time it feels like it.
Like canceling the project last year and coming back again now.
4.The economy is bad and there will still be troubles ahead. This was the reason it used for the cancellation last year. The economy is the same today. Why this change of heart?
5. The consultants must provide a list of Laie residents who got paid $100 for interview. Were these HRI's friends, supporters, family members?
6. HRI must address flooding mitigation plans in Laie and especially reveal affordable housing prices.Otherwise, it will be homes for people out of Laie.
7. We can see through the emotional videos of ohana, love, hula, kupunas. The Kupuna Kela Miller is even HRI's worker. Don't use us. Give us facts and details of what exactly is going to happen in Malaekahana. Give us a development map with affordable housing, retail, market-value homes locations and all that and more.....
HRI better pay Aunty Kela Miller good. She's working overtime. HRI has planted her in the Laie Community Association, the Koolauloa Neighborhood Board and even their ENVISION Laie video. HRI is making her the face of Laie. She's not good enough to be in top management? Give her a house already. She's still renting from HRI though her family has been here for generations.
If HRI wants to plan for the Ko'olau Region, then it needs to consult with the Ko'olau Region community association meetings. It cannot control the notification list, pick and choose who gets to give input and who doesn't.
Why one community thinks it knows better than every one else is also another problem. Do what you want in Laie but don't spill over to other communities. All the people in the region should have a say in what happens in Kahuku since it's going to alter this region.
A case in point - HRI talks about controlling traffic by an inside road. You think there is enough customers to make Laie Shopping Center and the dream Shopping center in Malaekahana? No ways! You need lots of outside people to make it a go.
Nowadays, you can't trust anything. If a developer says something that sounds good, you must ask what their motive is. Is this really true? Will this work?
What other important things are they not sharing? Is there another way? You just cannot sit down and because someone is a friend or relative, you except 100% without thinking. That's how many Hawaiians lost their lands and are living on the beach today or still renting.
LOL! Too funny!
For $100 I give you permission to build waikiki at Malaekahana!
Get a life!
The beaches are beautiful today.
HRI needs to focus on cleaning house in Laie before it should be allowed to build another house somewhere else.
Start with two big problems --- the flooding problems and blurry lines of church/business.
I don't want to say that lots of money is wasted for professional consultants but it looks like it. Sorry. The weird thing about people in Laie is also they always have two stories to tell you. One for the public and one for between you and I. Which story they tell for $100 price?
I like this survey better because it's more open - it covers more topics and pilikia that make Laie unique. It tells it for what it is even though not everything is pretty.
I also like the fact that you don't have to answer every question. The HRI survey is too cold and rigid as it guides you where it wants you to go :=) Sneaky. Sneaky but I think everybody knows the games
consultants play. I can't believe they bribe people with $100 Doesn't sound right. Sounds insulting.
Why don't some of you run for Laie Community Association?
Dear Anonymous,
It's easier said than done. LCA does not advertise their elections ahead of time. They keep it a big secret. They only advertise who the elected candidates are when it's all pau. There is no surprise. Pane Meatoga clings on to power. They don't even let Jr. Ah You to be President when he's been the longest and works the hardest. It's because Jr. speaks more and not just follow along like Pane. We've been told Pane and Beaver are cousins. LCA is too entrenched for sure. Election is kept so quiet that it's like 40 votes. That's real bad for a community of about 8000.
All this pilikia is small-town syndrome. Add to it the layers of personal, social, occupational and ecclesiastical entangelement. It will always be problematic unless there are only zombies or if those with power and authority have a clear understanding of what is appropriate behavior and what is not.It appears Laie has major conflicts.
If HRI management continues to be dumb and arrogant, there will always be huhu.
Remember the dumb decision to ostracize the beach and Point people from sewer project? The reason Beaver used was no more funds. Beach/Point residents looked around and the rest of Laie got free hook-ups. You think that did not get people mad? Now, that was really stupid. Even we thought so ourselves.
Recently, there were big boulders blocking the canal drainage and HRI refused to admit this was dumb management too.
Plenty more but no need to keep reminding. HRI never learns.You treat people nasty and you expect support? When are they going to get it? I don't know why they continue to act ignorant like this. This is not a church calling where you can expect strict obedience all the time I don't think.
Best thing is don't depend on others.
You can not be exploited this way.
It's not a sin to question.
Study. Learn. Educate yourself.
Follow the spirit.
"they are taught correct principles and they govern themselves."
We can also imply that those who are in positions of responsibility who cannot govern themselves with correct principles SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED to govern.
To end on a positive note, there are many capable and wonderful men in Laie who do a good job. Only a few rotten apples I would dare say.
Many of us remember President Hinckley advice for Laie that goes something like this: Make sure you don't try to solve one problem and create many new ones.
Affordable housing has to be under $250K or it's not affordable.
Very interesting and revealing comments here. When the consultants talked about sustainability - what lenses did they use. Sustainability is a very loaded word. Sustainable to whose and to what standards and in what areas -economic, social, spiritual, cultural? IT sounds like HRI wants to develop the 663 acres they bought in 2003. Whatever rationale HRI uses, we know its all about profit-making which is okay. But don't hide behind affordable housing and love of Laie. if HRI is truly concerned about Laie, it will take care of the problems in Laie first - before moving to Malaekahana.
There must be some serious flood mitigation engineering before the new hotel can be built. Or, the hotel must have a design like Noah Ark so it can float when the rains fall.
HRI must be a good neighbor. Also, NO NO NO changing to RESORT for their beach lot across the hotel. That would be outrageous special favor from the city. HRI cannot be treated 'special' from Mayor Hannemann. No private owner wants to have a hotel annex next to their personal home.
Based on all that have been said, several recurring issues boil to the top.
#1 there is a credibility and resentment issue in the motive and process of HRI & consultants for Envision Laie.
#2 There are many unanswered questions to various issues including affordable housing. More details and data are needed.
#3. Flooding is a major issue.
#4. HRI management and lack of management is a major issue.
#5 Separation of Church and business is a major issue.
The newspapers reported that population on Oahu has decreased.
The outer islands like Hawaii have increased. There is a big inventory of homes and condos around Oahu starting from $199,000 and up.Some of the 2-bedrooms for $195,000 in Mililani are so beautiful. Affordable housing prices here cannot be more than that. BYU, PCC don't pay that much.
It's true that BYUH and PCC need each other but they don't need HRI.
Nobody in Laie wants HRI to be the plantation town head luna.
At one time, there was talk of giving the city/state the water system and the streets. This cannot be a profitable venture so we don't know why this has not been pursued. Laie residents who pay property and other taxes are losing their tax contributions. It makes no sense for HRI to want to hang on to the water and street unless it wants to protect the water for its other development.
what about LDS in Kaneohe, Honolulu and other places who also want a home. talking about sustainability. this HRI marketing ploy of using affordable housing is not sustainable. HRI should just out itself and behave like any other major developer if it wants to develop Malaekahana. It's just trying to get community support by hiding behind affordable housing. If HRI outs itself as a developer, it will cut down on the confusion of church/business. There will be much less acrimony and controversy and suspicions in Laie.
Very good question as to why it is called Laie EnVision when development is not in Laie. If you got land in Wailua, you can still call it Laie Envision and the herd mentality of Laie wouldn't question right? It an insult to the people of Laie to play this trick.
Sign me up! For a $100 stipend I will wear a yellow shirt, raise my hand and vote. I will support HRI's project any where in Oahu where they have land. If it is the outer islands, it will be $200.
Sign me up! For a $100 stipend I will wear a yellow shirt, raise my hand and vote. I will support HRI's project any where in Oahu where they have land. If it is the outer islands, it will be $200.
The devil is in the details.
Details like who is going to benefit -it sounds like affordable housing benefits BYU faculty - the expensive home benefits mainland haoles - the commercial side benefits HRI to make more money.The locals who will find out affordable housing is not affordable benefit traffic. more HRI bossing around, increased property taxes and more outside population.
LCA should get a group of local community people together to talk about this.
And get out of your comfort zone; don't hid in your little hole; don't just ask supporters like your usual MO. They will be useless and waste of time. Ask those who are successful, knowledgeable and who are willing to speak up. You should have enough in Laie. People like Kela Miller is nice kupuna but what expertise do they have? They don't even own a home when they have been in Laie for generations. Getting out of the blind spot is the only way LCA is going to get back some of its effectiveness.
Right now, LCA is just like a little step-brother tagging along. Nobody is going to listen to you when you have no clout or anything concrete to talk about.
Many Hawaiians have gone to their grave waiting for OHA to give them a homestead. Don't wait. HRI is doing its people a favor when it keeps promising affordable housing to promote its own business agenda. Its people wait and do not see reality, just hope. If you can't qualify for a home now, what makes you think you can qualify for a home later? If the income is not good or the credit is not good, do something now. Don't wait.
BYU should provide more opportunities for locals to gain an education. A good education will help solve affordable housing by itself. Give local kids a break. Some local kids have goofed during high school but now they are regretting. Give them a break.
Please empower people rather than enslave them. Teach them how to fish, not exploiting them with promises of fish. Teach them how to swim. That's the Hawaiian way!
I mean to say HRI is --not---doing its people a favor when it keeps promising affordable housing to advance its own business agenda. My mistake. Aloha.
No matter what. Church/politics/business don't mix when one manipulative person is given such opportunity. I can tell you plenty true stories (not gossip kind) of abuse of power and unrighteous dominion but you already know it exist.
I don't know about you all but every time HRI uses the Sacrament meeting or any other meetings to announce their activities, it ruins the spirit for me. I don't want to hear about them on the Sabbath. Period. HRI is business and it has no right getting into our worship services.
I second my c0-worker! Keep church services out of it. separate it. It doesn't matter if they are all united or if the Bishop is HRI's biggest supporter. Keep it
separate. It ruins the spirituality.People just keep quiet to be polite but they don't like it.
It is not fair for HRI to exploit the religion 'affinity' part for this ENVISION LAIE thingy. They just give a commercial bleep with data about BYU that do not pertain to the real development. Then they think we are stupid or sheepish to raise our hands in support. If we don't support, we must be bad members or we don't get it. It is very unfair and very insulting. It also create a lot of division and animosity in Laie. Thanks to HRI.
Just like the last time Eric Beaver gave a masterplan presentation at the BYU auditorium with no question/answer time provided. HRI set up a roll at the front of the auditorium and wanted people to sign. It was the height of arrogance and abuse of power he has. They never learn. Now they are doing again. Be fair and provide the pertinent info like prices, leasehold, maps, what kind houses, how many, projected population, impact on Laie and all those data. We are not being difficult but we just want to be treated intelligently and with respect. HRI is so arrogant and bossy as usual. Get new management or forget it. Enuf already! 3 strikes and you're out.
Doctrines & Covenants 121:39 42
we have learnt by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.
No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood (leadership), only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and love unfeigned.
By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile .... added: and without manipulation.
We need more Von Orgill and less you know who. No excuses. No justification. No lies. No manipulation. No bull.
So Kela Miller is now in the Neighborhood board too. how many hats she wears now? She neva even say she works for HRI in the neighborhood board ballot. Kupuna Council of Laie? My kupuna wasn't invited. Norman Kahuhiokalani is the independent one but he has the least votes. Funny, eh?
Enough said already. No need waste time. HRI is going to do what it wants to do. Everybody put on a big smile and go along. Try sit back and observe and question the way they talk and operate. See if you find any details or if they are floating around and making excuses they can't give this data and they can't give that data. You know what the folks want:
1. Fee simple
2. Affordable Affordable.
3. More details
This is a lot of comments. Are you sure you are not being paid $100 to do this? Aroha.
Amen. Your comments should be useful to the professional counsultants. No charge. Wait and see what HRI is going to do next about flooding and taking care of Laie first.
Laie/Malaekahana will look like Haleiwa. Is this what Koolauloa wants?
This so-called "Public Process"
is nothing but an exercise in fallacy and conspiracy between the city and HRI. Any person with a little bit of common sense can see through all this manipulative facade in the polling, surveys and public meetings.
Where are all the Communications, Political Science, Religion, Business Professors and students? Is this BYU-Hawaii a real institute of learning or what?
Aloha all- Special Ko'olau Loa board meeting on Thursday 7-9pm JULY 30th at the La'ie Elementary Cafeteria. It's HRI and Envision La'ie's strike to present their plan of development for Gunstock to get approved by the board.
We need everyone there who cares about this community and wants to express their concerns with this proposed development.
See you there!
Aloha!
The Neighborhood Board elections was a big fiasco and scam. Nobody voted except their supporters and special interest.
kupuna said that Kela Miller told them if Envision Laie is not approved, BYU-Hawaii will shut down. How much is she paid by her boss HRI to scare people like that? And she is on the neighborhood board now. This is not pono.
There is too must scare tactics out there. People like Kela Miller and other LDS zealots are saying things like that this is the prophet's plan. Be obedient. If Laie Envision fails, BYU will close down like Mapusega in Samoa. This is reaching hysteria and frenzy. Cool down the zealots and let's put on our thinking caps for a change.
Whats up with HRI having all it's supporters where Gold Shirts to this upcoming meeting to support their development.
I guess it suits them well. $$$$$$$$$
The army of HRI is on the march. They are going door to door to deliver slick brochures. Plenty of PR empty words but no information.
What is the affordable price?
Is it going to be leasehold or fee simple?
If affordable housing going to be built first? We have heard this promise since 1980s.
Who do they think is going to buy the high end homes?
Who is going to occupy the shopping village that HRI is going to control? Taco bell? Subway?
Not many locals can even afford the high lease that HRI is charging now for the Laie Shopping Center.
So whose fault is it that kids here have lowest math and reading scores? Is HRI providing a new school and think they can do a better job as teachers?
If the poverty line is below Honolulu and HRI claims it and PCC and BYU are the main employers,
why don't you increase the salaries of all workers and just not top management?
The glitzy brochure is so shibai and so insulting to Laie's intelligence. I feel sorry for the BYU professors who cannot speak up.
I'm a public school teacher and I
am insulted that Hawaii Reserves
Envision Lai'e implies it needs to
develop Malaekahana because the
children has the lowest reading
and writing scores.
Say that again?
This is stupid.
Public school teachers cannot do
everything.
Family is what makes the
difference.
You don't need a fancy school to
get good grades.
Laie Envision needs to come up
with a better excuse to get
thinking people to support their
Envsion Lai'e development.
Some people in Laie never learn. Last year HRI announced it was canceling its development for 'workforce' housing after so much talk and presentations. This year they come up with Laie Envision but dropped the 'workforce' housing lingo. Hawaii Reserves is one good chameleon. There will always be suckers in this world. The Laie Community Association tops the list.
Koolauloa Neighborhood Board election results
The following were elected or re-elected to two-year terms on the Koolauloa Neighborhood Board during recent first-ever Internet-based polling:
* Jimmy Leonardi (Kahuku)
* Junior Primacio (Kahuku)
* John Elkington (Laie) BYU
* Norman Kaluhiokalani (Laie)BYU
* Kela Miller (Laie) HRI
* Les Steward (Laie) PCC
* Richard Fale (Hauula)LDS
* Moana Kalua'ü (Hauula)HRI
* Dotty Kelly-Paddock (Hauula)
* Creighton Mattoon (Punaluu)
* Dee Dee Letts (Kaaawa)
Neighborhood boards, which are geographically distributed throughout Oahu, are designed to advise City and County of Honolulu and other government units. Those without Internet access were encouraged to use computers at public libraries and were also given a phone number to call; however, City officials have reported only 6.5 percent of eligible voters cast ballots in this election.
Why should we keep supporting HRI in their development? We always end up getting burnt. They wanted to sewer Laie so they can develop and we end up with higher and higher sewer fees. HRI forced us to connect or they say it will be too much later on. Now what? Hawaii Reserves charges so expensive lease at the Shopping center. HRI fight for every penny every time we have a quarrel with bills or leases or cemetery services. Do we expect HRI to give us Laie people a break? NO.
Hawaii Reserves better give Aunty Kela Miller a big bonus this pay cheque cause she followed instructions well.
Uuwe to the board who refused to allow other people to speak and then had to change their minds. They voted to support the plan when Envision Laie never went to the other communities yet.
It was like a PCC night show - all fluff entertainment and so real information.
We still like know what price is the affordable housing going to be.
How many people are going to get it?
Who is going to get it?
What kind housing?
Where is it going to be located?
When is this going to happen?
Although I do not fully support HRI or it's methods, I think we need to take a step back before impuning Kela. She is a good person who has her own mind and freedom of choice. Her employer and their desire to alter the landscape is the issue.
Excellent blog!
There is a community forum for people wanting to discuss the Laie Development issue:
laietalk.com
Aunt Kela is so good, HRI should promote her to top management already. HRI showcased her as the Laie Kupuna, Ko'olauloa Neighborhood Board, Laie community Association etc etc. How come she's still just one office girl?
Give her a raise already. She has been working so hard. She told Kupunas they need to support Laie Envision or BYU or PCC will go belly up. Pane Meatoga needs a raise too.
I one public school teecher too and I insulted big time. So what Hawaii Reserve goin to do? HRI contractor go raise the test scores 'cause we teachers too dumb?
Too dumb to tink that one new RHI devlopment not goin to make test scores go up?
If they build it, they will come. Who are they? For those who will build it, they are Utah contractors. For those who will come, they are others from outside the state who will fill the new jobs at BYUH. All the other job opportunities will be low paying jobs at PCC for their foreign and mainland students.
Local boy
Kaaawa, HI
whalewatcher wrote:
I don't believe you. In all my years in the church, no one has EVER told me how I should vote or what cause I should support. Yet you call your own brothers and sister sheeple. Shame on you.
Maybe you never live in Laie Whalewatcher.
Eric Beaver the Hawaii Reserves CEO is also in charge of the church in Laie. His top henchmen Bishops are Steve Hoag (HRI employee), George Reid (HRI employee) and David Orme, new transplant from Arizona.(There are so many GOOD men in Laie and Eric Beaver chose these men. Think about it.)
David Orme called Uncle Harry Piltz's wife Mary into his church office one day and told her she cannot talk stink about Hawaii Reserves. David Orme threatened the church members in the Laie church and told them they cannot question HRI or they are apostates. He punished plenty church members who questioned HRI.
This is a fact. It happened. Uncle Harry Piltz is one Hauula boy. Whalewatcher - you need to watch closer.... and listen.
go live
Mililani, HI
# Local boy wrote:
Maybe you never live in Laie Whalewatcher.
Eric Beaver the Hawaii Reserves CEO is also in charge of the church in Laie. His top henchmen Bishops are Steve Hoag (HRI employee), George Reid (HRI employee) and David Orme, new transplant from Arizona.(There are so many GOOD men in Laie and Eric Beaver chose these men. Think about it.)
David Orme called Uncle Harry Piltz's wife Mary into his church office one day and told her she cannot talk stink about Hawaii Reserves. David Orme threatened the church members in the Laie church and told them they cannot question HRI or they are apostates. He punished plenty church members who questioned HRI.
This is a fact. It happened. Uncle Harry Piltz is one Hauula boy. Whalewatcher - you need to watch closer.... and listen.
Yeah, that side is funny kine. They must all fall in and toe the line, or get punishes. Sounds like plantation days, except now it's by an institution that claims to be the "true" church. So sad.
Local boy
Kaaawa, HI
Yeah, that side is funny kine. They must all fall in and toe the line, or get punishes. Sounds like plantation days, except now it's by an institution that claims to be the "true" church. So sad.
We know plenty nice ones but. But you know what they say you only need a few to spoil it for all. Uncle Harry Piltz wasn't going to take no BS from them. He told them off in their face and reported the incident for every one to hear. Then their excuse was it was 'all a misunderstanding". Don't mess around with Uncle Harry 'cause he'll stand up to any bully.
This one pretty one too from the Star Bulletin:
-----------------------------------
-----------------------------------
whalewatcher wrote:
I don't believe you. In all my years in the church, no one has EVER told me how I should vote or what cause I should support. Yet you call your own brothers and sister sheeple. Shame on you.
----------------------------------
Maybe you never live in Laie Whalewatcher.
Eric Beaver the Hawaii Reserves CEO is also in charge of the church in Laie. His top henchmen Bishops are Steve Hoag (HRI employee), George Reid (HRI employee) and David Orme, new transplant from Arizona.(There are so many GOOD men in Laie and Eric Beaver chose these men. Think about it.)
David Orme called Uncle Harry Piltz's wife Mary into his church office one day and told her she cannot talk stink about Hawaii Reserves. David Orme threatened the church members in the Laie church and told them they cannot question HRI or they are apostates. He punished plenty church members who questioned HRI.
This is a fact. It happened. Uncle Harry Piltz is one Hauula boy. Whalewatcher - you need to watch closer.... and listen.
go live
Mililani, HI
-----------------------------------
-----------------------------------
Yeah, that side is funny kine. They must all fall in and toe the line, or get punishes. Sounds like plantation days, except now it's by an institution that claims to be the "true" church. So sad.
----------------------------------
Reply:
We know plenty nice ones but. But you know what they say you only need a few to spoil it for all. Uncle Harry Piltz wasn't going to take no BS from them. He told them off in their face and reported the incident for every one to hear. Then their excuse was it was 'all a misunderstanding". Don't mess around with Uncle Harry 'cause he'll stand up to any bully.
go live
Mililani, HI
==================================
We know plenty nice ones but. But you know what they say you only need a few to spoil it for all. Uncle Harry Piltz wasn't going to take no BS from them. He told them off in their face and reported the incident for every one to hear. Then their excuse was it was 'all a misunderstanding". Don't mess around with Uncle Harry 'cause he'll stand up to any bully.
===================================
right on!!
I cringe when I see Steve Wheelwright uses the words "OHANA" in his plea for support.
He never treated our OHANA nice when he came. No need to air dirty linens.
Printed in today's Star Bulletin
"BYU's vision conflicts with city
At a Honolulu City Planning Commission hearing in the early 1980s, a Brigham Young University representative presented a plan for extensive development in Laie, extolling the many features of the plan to develop the area. When asked how the proposal fit into the city's overall General Plan for Oahu, the representative was speechless. He had no knowledge of the plan. It now looks as if history may be repeating itself. A new proposal from BYU affiliates shows either no knowledge, or a lack of respect for the city's long range planning for our island.
According to the city Department of Planning and Permitting, the General Plan already accommodates all projected island growth. The City's Sustainable Communities Plan for the area permits little growth because the growth is directed to other areas of the island such as the Ewa "second city."
A large development in Laie would mean that the entire General Plan would have to be redesigned, and most of the city's growth policies modified, not just an amendment to the Sustainable Communities Plan. The General Plan is well on its way to fruition, and represents multimillion dollars of investment of taxpayer money for infrastructure. Think of the cost of the new parks and schools in Kapolei, the cost of the new freeway interchanges, and the Honouliuli sewer plant expansion that taxpayers have already funded, not to mention the justification for the rail system.
The General Plan considered all of these factors, and many others; that is why the area is only designated for minor development. It should stay that way."
Charles A. Prentiss, Ph.D.
Former executive secretary,
Honolulu Planning Commission
With all due respect to the few outgoing kupunas who spoke at the Neighborhood board meeting. How many of them and their family members received $100 for talking with the consultants?
One Kupuna described exactly the problem and gullible mindset of so many nice kupunas. She said she never had problems with anything. That's why Hawaii is the way it is.
They just listen to HRI "Kupuna" like Kela Miller and they trusted her. Their trust and their loving ways are being exploited. Maybe they should question where she is coming from?
There is nothing much left of Hawaii and now some of these live aloha kupunas are supporting big business who will wipe out our Hawaiian system of Ahupu'a.
If Hawaiians and supporters of local ways don't stand up and say no to this Laie Envision, there will be nothing left.
Yes, the world is changing. We have to use our hearts but we must also use our minds that the good Lord has blessed us with. There are many kupunas who don't feel good about this but it's not their nature to disagree in public.
I don't trust HRI. Period.
What about me? I don't have any house but I don't live in Laie. A lot of the people who testified for Laie Envision last Thursday (7-30-2009) already have a home. Harry Brown has an affordable home in Kahuku and another home in Maui. Someone told me OHA land. Is the system broken that one man can have 2 subsidized homes? How did he do that? Show me the tricks.
Allan Oleole spoke the truth. People should think seriously about what he said. He also said he was in the Laie Community Association Board, Neighborhood Board and affordable housing committees. He is retired from BYU-Hawaii Business Department. I admire him. He had guts to say what he said.
Have you noticed that many who rent say they cannot afford to buy have fancy cars? But they have money to go Las Vegas.
Those faculty at BYU-Hawaii who are still expecting homes are pretty spoiled. There are lots of workers and also faculty at BYU who have bought homes. They may not be the best mainland homes but the homes are worth something. They are not high maka-maka to get out into the community to mingle with the local folks.
Here are a few:
Michelle Fuluvaka and her husband
Allan Oleole
Rex Frandsen
Garside
Randy and Cecilia Day
Mark and Choon James
Sherman Han
Jeff Burroughs
Shawn Ransom
Phil Bruner
Nakayama
Chew
Chen
Charlie Goo
Kat Kajiyama
Bradshaws
Munsons
Wagners
Ned Williams
Johnson
Uyehara
Kahalepuna
Camit
Pukahi
There are plenty more. I'm saying that it is possible. You just have to go for it.
There's another blog on this subject at http://laietalk.com.
I live out of Laie and it never ceases to amaze me how Zions Securities and now Hawaii Reserves, Inc. can continue to incapacitate the minds and the ambitions of some people.
Hawaii Reserves = Arrogance = Pride
HRI is always one controversy after another. They think they are above the rules and laws. By the way Management treats people, they must think they are God's gift to Hawaii
Hawaii Reserves' newsletter:
April 3, 2008 - Nearly a month after HRI announced its decision to halt work on the Malaekahana workforce housing project, the Honolulu Advertiser's lead story in its print edition discussed at length the various factors that led to the land management company's decision to halt work on the project.
----------------
Affordable housing project in La'ie dies
By Eloise Aguiar
Advertiser Staff Writer
Hawaii Reserves Inc. has dropped plans to build hundreds of affordable homes between La'ie and Kahuku, citing "unacceptable risk" and only "moderate community support."
HRI President and CEO Eric Beaver attributed the decision to a host of cost and regulatory factors, but said recent decisions to close Molokai Ranch and shut down Aloha Airlines confirmed that now may not be the time to pursue the project.
"What's happening generally in the economy, that's a nagging concern for all of us as well," he said. "We're starting to see that these are difficult times, that we seem to be falling into a recession."
The news disappointed many in La'ie, where several generations often live under one roof and as many as 200 families had expressed interest in owning one of the homes.
"Quite a number of people in the village who were very hopeful of getting housing are unhappy with that decision," said Stan Curnow, a La'ie resident.
HRI, which manages and owns land affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, had said it would build 550 homes on 663 acres that once belonged to the old Gun Stock Ranch. Last year, HRI purchased an additional 227 acres adjacent to the ranch property for the development, which has been planned since at least 2003.
The company first announced its intention to pull out at a Ko'olau Loa Sustainable Communities Plan meeting on March 5. The next day, a statement by Beaver was read at a La'ie Community Association meeting.
"Feasibility estimates pose an unacceptable risk at this time," Beaver said in the statement. "Cost of the entitlement process, current market and political conditions, moderate community support, and other nearby residential development plans were key factors in our decision to stop the project."
Beaver told The Advertiser yesterday that a combination of factors would have resulted in homes that would cost more than the citizens who were to benefit from it could pay.
For one, the land's zoning had to be changed, a three-step process that could have taken five to 10 years, he said. On top of that, the cost of the land and infrastructure alone was estimated at $200 million, Beaver said. That translates into more than $363,000 per house for the 550 homes.
There were questions about whether the group HRI was targeting — families earning about $72,000 annually — could afford the homes, given those initial costs.
The company tried to find cheaper, "greener" ways to build — maybe without gutters and sidewalks, which is usual in most rural areas. But to do that, the city said the company would have to get an ordinance change, Beaver said. In the end they were told it would take less time to go the traditional permit route, he said.
"Another factor was that the community support was somewhat moderate," Beaver said.
There was no overwhelming support when it came time to lobby for changes that would help the project, he said. One model was to develop the homes as leasehold, but residents didn't like that even though they knew they couldn't afford fee property, he said.
"I'm not sure what it is they're expecting us to do," Beaver said. "We've been saying for a long time, we're not going to do the project unless it's feasible. We're not going to lose money."
Finally, the whole market has changed along with the political issues with Turtle Bay development and other projects slated for the community, he said.
Beaver said the company will hold on to the 890 acres and the current lessees will remain on the property.
PREDICTABLE, SOME SAY
Dan Davidson, executive director for the Hawaii Housing Finance & Development Corp. that helps provide affordable housing in the state, said losing an affordable housing project is disappointing because of the statewide shortage of such units.
Davidson said a number of factors make it difficult to develop affordable housing, including land cost, the permit process and financing. But HRI had the added burden of trying to develop in a rural community where density is low and construction costs are higher, he said.
"Developing affordable housing is not an easy business in the best of circumstances," Davidson said. "It requires a lot of positive factors in terms of financing, land cost and permit cost. Sometimes it works better than other times."
He said the permitting process needs to be shortened and that he and others are working to fix that.
HRI's effort to address the "gap group" — residents making $72,000 — was also difficult because of a lack of state and federal financial incentives, Davidson said.
Despite the problems the company faced, some La'ie residents said a number of people feel betrayed by the project's cancellation.
Others thought the decision was predictable. Choon James, a longtime La'ie resident, said HRI or its predecessor, Zion Securities, has made promises to the community before and not kept them. This latest decision is more of the same, she said.
"For over 20 years, Zion Securities and (now) Hawaii Reserves have asked for community support when they needed them," James said. "Each time they needed community support, they dangled the 'affordable housing' carrot stick to the community."
Zion had plans for affordable apartments in the 1980s but couldn't get anything built because a sewage treatment plant needed upgrades, James said. At least three times, she said, the community was asked to support sewer projects and each time they were told the project would make it easier to build affordable housing. But no homes were built.
"HRI got what they wanted and affordable housing is still in the discussion stage," James said. "Affordable housing is always in the discussion stage."
The new project failed to gain widespread community support because it was touted as workforce housing for employees of Brigham Young University, Polynesian Cultural Center and the church, James said. It didn't help that HRI wanted to sell the homes on a leasehold basis, she added.
OTHER PROJECTS
Beaver said the homes were slated for the workforce from community institutions and while that includes the church, the university and the cultural center, it also includes teachers, firefighters and police officers who work in the area. He said 98 percent of the La'ie workforce is employed in the community, so nearly all would have benefited.
Beaver held out hope for affordable housing in projects proposed by other developers.
"We are pleased that there are other development plans in the area that seek to address the shortage of affordable housing for the community," he said. "We trust the residents will study these plans and support those projects that best reflect their interests."
Manager's Ridge and Malaekahana Hui West are two projects that include plans to build some affordable housing in Kahuku, but the numbers fall short of what HRI had planned.
The developer of Manager's Ridge, above Kahuku High & Intermediate School, plans to build 104 homes on 58 acres, with 51 percent of them affordable.
Malaekahana West, which has 455 acres, is still planning but said it has pledged 50 acres to Kahuku High & Intermediate School to build a new campus, will keep some of the land in agriculture and intends to build affordable homes on the rest.
tama2cool2 wrote:
I guess then it is a good thing that the Neighborhood Board vote carries no legal binding weight. Maybe an endorsement or support, but no legal weight. But yes, it is a shame that for even that there are board members who should show better character and recuse themselves from even voting in such an important issue. It smells like the relatively new President of BYUH was sent to see how to "grow" the university. That would spell trouble first off the bat. When they decided to expand the school and other church properties, it shows compounded bad planning. Firstly, because they did not in the early stages realize what they wanted in the long run. Secondly, they now have no idea exactly where it will end. Their plans for development sounds like "we need this right now, but may need more later". Sorry, no way to plan for success. There is too much at stake as far as infrastructure and all important "community integrity". That is to work with the surrounding communities. You don't just bully out ...and declare "we are gonna do this". But then again..we gotta see what will happen when the Planning commission gets a hold of it.
Interesting points. I like the word 'community integrity'. Hawaii Reserves, based on their arrogant record, is sorely lacking. Eric Beaver of the Hawaii Reserves kept positioning Pane Meatoga, the Laie Community Association, as the voice representing Laie. From what I hear, their election votes was like 40 votes. That's embarrassing for a community of 7,000 - 8,000 people.
http://www.IndependentKamaaina.blogspot.com tells a different story.
I would believe the locals over business corporations any time. Maybe the only way to restore 'community integrity' is to change management. Start from scratch.
Mahalo Plenty !!!!!!! Kent Fonoimoana for your leadership and for saying the truth. Plantation days over. You the man!
"I'm not sure what it is they're expecting us to do," Beaver said. "We've been saying for a long time, we're not going to do the project unless it's feasible. We're not going to lose money."
Honolulu Advertiser
------------------
Hawaii Reserves, Inc. needs to have a signed AGREEMENT with the communities before they are allowed to do anything. This is not a novice idea.
Affordable housing has to be built FIRST.(we are catching on!)
What PRICE? (Trust is not enuf)
WHERE?
Fee Simple or Leasehold?
Appreciation cap at time of resale?
Conditions?
Time line
Who is going to get to buy?
Those who testify for them going to get first choice? Most of them already have homes of their own.
I still like to know who in Laie were paid $100 to participate in this Laie Envision thingy.
How to Catch a Pig
There was a Chemistry professor in a large college that had some Exchange
Students in the class. One day while the class was in the lab the Prof
noticed one young man (exchange student) who kept rubbing his back and
stretching as if his back hurt.
The professor asked the young man what was the matter. The student told him
he had a bullet lodged in his back. He had been shot while fighting
communists in his native country who were trying to overthrow his country's
government and install a new communist government.
In the midst of his story he looked at the professor and asked a strange
question. He asked, "Do you know how to catch wild pigs?"
The professor thought it was a joke and asked for the punch line.
The young man said this was no joke. "You catch wild pigs by finding a
suitable place in the woods and putting corn on the ground. The pigs find it and
begin to come everyday to eat the free corn. When they are used to
coming every day, you put a Fence down one side of the place where they are
used to coming.
When they get used to the fence, they begin to eat the corn again and you
put up another side of the fence.
They get used to that and start to eat again You continue until you have all
four sides of the fence up with a gate in the last side. The pigs, who are
used to the free corn, start to come through the gate to eat, you slam the
gate on them and catch the whole herd.
Suddenly the wild pigs have lost their freedom. They run around and around
inside the fence, but they are caught. Soon they go back to eating the free
corn. They are so used to it that they have forgotten how to forage in the
woods for themselves, so they accept their captivity."
The young man then told the professor that is exactly what he sees happening
to America. The government keeps pushing us toward Communism/socialism and
keeps spreading the free corn out in the form of programs such as
supplemental income, tax credit for unearned income, tobacco subsidies,
dairy subsidies, payments not to plant crops (CRP), welfare, medicine,
drugs, etc. While we continually lose our freedoms- just A little at a
time.
One should always remember "There is no such thing as a free Lunch!"
Also, "You can never hire someone to provide a service for you Cheaper than
you can do it yourself.
Also, if you see that all of this wonderful government "help" is a problem
confronting the future of democracy in America, you might want to send this
on to your friends. If you think the free ride is essential to your way of
life then you will probably delete this but God help you when the
gate slams shut!
manini wrote:
Envision La'ie was created by those who want to develop the area to fool the public. We see this all the time. They fool the people into believing they are part of the process when in actuality the public is being led by the nose to the decision that the developer wants. The fact that the Mormon Church is doing it doesn't make it any more proper than if it were one of the more sleazier devlopers we have around town.
07/31/2009 4:16:07 a.m.
mywordscount wrote:
There is a long list of homes right in Laie that are FOR SALE why is that when there is so many Laie residents that need homes. There is also a long list of FORECLOSURES, how can that be? How will people be able to afford these brand new homes when they can't even keep the houses they have now? Go figure.
07/31/2009 7:13:16 a.m.
There is a long list of homes right in Laie that are FOR SALE why is that when there is so many Laie residents that need homes. There is also a long list of FORECLOSURES, how can that be? How will people be able to afford these brand new homes when they can't even keep the houses they have now? Go figure.
mywordscount
Recommended (10)
mywordscount wrote:
The developers are not saying how much these homes are going to be, there must be a reason why. They have a so-called affordable homes developement plan right down the road in Kahuku, there are 18 EMPTY lots for sale for a super affordable price of $425,000. If you want to live in a house that's extra..I don't see people busting down the doors to get those. So if they build affordable homes in Laie is there going to be an eligibility requirement that you need to be Mormon or attend the LDS church to apply for these homes? Because if not many of these homes will be taken up by outsiders that can qualify for the loans and not the actual people that live in Laie. People wake up!
mywordscount
Recommended (6)
mywordscount wrote:
The majority of the supports work for HRI & PCC and attend the LDS church. How can you believe that this project is going to bring in more jobs...where? There is only so many positions at PCC you have every polynesian island represented now what more can you add. The fact of the matter is if you are not of the Mormon religion more than likely you aren't attending BYU and the BYU students get first choice at the jobs at PCC. If a regular person like myself went down to PCC for a job I probably wouldn't be hired. Many of the people that spoke were speaking on behalf of themselves and their children, how do they know that their children want to work at PCC let alone live in Laie. People also complained that there were not enough affordable housing and that parents had their entire extended family living with them because of it. By the time this project is built, with the cost of materials these homes will no longer be affordable. Then what!
mywordscount wrote:
I went to last night's rally. The majority of the crowd wore yellow in support of the expansion, we wore RED in opposition. They had some developers get up and talk about how they are going to make this expansion work for the community, then they had the community stand up and give comments. This process was so one-sided (in favor of the expansion) it was ridiculous, out of the 40+ people that made comments only 5 or 6 people were lucky enough to sign up to make comments against the project...the rest of the opposers were told that it was too late and sign in's were closed. What a coincidence that there is no more spaces for the opposers.
HINO - HAWAIIAN IN NAME ONLY.
Fuuny kine how many executives in the Hawaii Reserves, Inc management show off their long Hawaiian names when they are trying to prove their ancestry.
Funny kine how many executives in the Hawaii Reserves, management never did think twice about destroying the historical sites in Laie and Malaekahana for Envision Laie.
Fine kind they never even understand the cultural importance of ahupua'a.
Uuuwe!!!!!
From the star bulletin on Dec 2008 Flood
flood_victims_face_daunting_repairs.htmlMany residents interviewed yesterday blamed the flooding on Hawaii Reserves Inc., a land management company in Laie. The company has a building project that the residents said disrupted the town's drainage system. Company officials disputed that, saying the drainage system could not handle the heavy rain, much like other parts of the island.
"It (the drainage system) is probably in the best condition it's been in as far as drainage systems go in Laie," said R. Eric Beaver, HRI's president and chief executive officer. "What we had was what I hope was an unusual storm event. We obviously weren't the only part of the island that had flooding."
When Hawaii Reserves took back John Kaleo's lease in Wahinepee Street, we tried to buy the vacant lot from HRI.
We wanted to use our real estate agent but HRI says they do not work with other agents or split commission with other realty offices.
When I asked the agent, she said that when HRI buys homes from them, they ask for the standard split in commission.
So why is HRI so greedy? HRI expects others to share their commission but they themselves don't want to share commissions. They always want the long end of the stick.
They love Laie residents so much. Many Laie residents tried to buy but HRI sold that lot to some investor in Wahiawa.
Do I trust HRI?
One more ...
When HRI and BYU-Hawaii buy properties in Laie, they buy with cash. Laie residents cannot compete with them.
So much for thinking of the 'poor' Laie people who are living in 'pent-up' homes. HRI always get what they want.
Unless they give very specific details and sign a contract with the city, we cannot trust them. It's as simple as that.
It interesting now that I think about it. It seems like more staff at BYU-Hawaii who make less money than the faculty have homes.
Their homes may not be Utah-style homes but it's a home. What do you think the faculty is waiting for?
Me too. They play with words too much. They say one thing and do another. Just keep your ears and eyes open long enough and you'll see what I mean.
#1. I find it odd that Pane Meatoga was saying at the Neighborhood Board Meeting on 7-30-09 that he had to fight very hard to be on the table with Hawaii Reserves, BYU and PCC with this Laie Envision.
#2 Now he says he has taken a personal interest in this Laie Envision thing because of his son leaving for the mainland.
Two manini questions:
1. If HRI/BYU/PCC respect Laie Community Association so much, why does LCA has to fight tooth and nail to be part of the discussion?
Unless LCA is useless, these entities should be crawling to LCA, not the other way around. Being quietly elected into office with voting numbers like 40 or 67 votes in a community of 7,000 is not exactly a mandate.
2. Pane Meatgoa has been LCA President forever and now, now he's beginning to take a personal interest in this affordable housing?
I hope he doesn't think that we Laie people are that stupid to not recognize that LCA is nothing but a rubber-stamp for HRI. Seriously, people of Laie, we need someone like Kent Fonoimoana to represent the interest of Laie residents.
#1. I find it odd that Pane Meatoga was saying at the Neighborhood Board Meeting on 7-30-09 that he had to fight very hard to be on the table with Hawaii Reserves, BYU and PCC with this Laie Envision.
#2 Now he says he has taken a personal interest in this Laie Envision thing because of his son leaving for the mainland.
===================================
YES!!!!!! THAT WAS WHAT I WAS THINKING TOO.
Pane sold out LCA to HRI long time ago. He may be the LCA President but he doesn't know who he is representing. You hear him talk and you see him put his foot into his mouth every time. Let Kent Fonoimoana do the job. He'll be a 100% better.
At the Ko'olauloa Sustainable Communities Plan meeting that was held on 08/05/'09 at the Queen Liliuokalani Center, Pane Meatoga intimated that the church (or its financial arm at the time Zions Security) had been part of the plan to convert Kokololio (Kakela's) into a city park. He stated that "even we have to wait in line now to use the park for camping." For those of you who may not know, Zion Securities (or its owners) wanted to develop this area. A high-end condominium project was planned. If it were not for the common sense of the neighborhood board at the time, there would be no park. It appears that HRI has acquired a new spinmeister.
FOR REAL. LOL. IF PANE MEATOGA WAS LCA PRESIDENT AT THE TIME, THERE WILL BE NOT MORE CAMPING GROUND FOR THE LDS WARDS AT KAKELA BEACH PARK.
lUCKY THING. LUCKY FONOIMOANA WAS THE LCA PRESIDENT. HE WORKED WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD BOARD AND LAIE RESIDENTS LIKE CHOON JAMES AND THE CITY COUNCIL ASKED THE LDS CHURCH TO PRESERVE IT. IT DIDN'T WANT TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MAINTENANCE SO IT DECIDED TO SELL TO THE CITY.
IF PANE MEATOGA AND THE PRESENT NEIGHBORHOOD BOARD WERE THERE THEN, WE CAN ALL KISS GOODBYE TO CAMPING.
Hey, I don't care about the $100 HRI's consultants were giving to some people in Laie.
But I do care about the $300,000.00
that the Laie Community Association received from the fee conversion with HRI. We all had to pay 1% of our fee price or $1500 to LCA.
Where is the $300,000.00
What has LCA done with it?
Show me the money and the balance sheet.
Do you remember Murdock Travel at the Laie shopping center?
BYU-Hawaii wanted to save money so they created their own travel office on campus.... and then that travel office competed with Murdock. No more Murdock Travel.
A local family started a print services in Kahuku. BYU-Hawaii wanted to save money and then wanted to make money outside of campus too. So that print company no more.
Look at Hukilau surf shop at Cackle Fresh. HRI wanted to renovate and then it jack up the lease rent so high. The old tenant had to give up the lease.
PCC signed with a new vendor and all the local AUTHENTIC LOCAL vendors were kicked out.
How many tenants have problems with HRI? LOL. And we want to give them more retail and business to manage? LOL.
All the above sounds familiar to you folks? You still want to believe that HRI/PCC/BYU have your best interest?????????? It's all about $$$$$$$$$. Don't be a sucker.
Anonymous What LCA? said...
#1. I find it odd that Pane Meatoga was saying at the Neighborhood Board Meeting on 7-30-09 that he had to fight very hard to be on the table with Hawaii Reserves, BYU and PCC with this Laie Envision.
#2 Now he says he has taken a personal interest in this Laie Envision thing because of his son leaving for the mainland.
Your observations are right on. If you observe, you'll see that now HRI is using Pane Meatoga as their spokesperson now. Pane was the one who recited the consultants plan at the July 30th meeting and Eric Beaver just sat and kept quiet.
So interesting to observe yeah? I like to know what Pane Meatago is getting out of this. Maybe it's all just an ego trip for him to be in the limelight.
If he truly listens to the community sentiments, he'll know that people want term limits and they want a change in LCA.In other words, they want him out!!!!! But this buggah keeps clinging on to power.
I hear in general three (3) different approaches to this issue.
1).Is in support of the developement.
2). Is dead set against the project.
3). Is against the project if it does not clarify or address the "affordable housing" in precise and OPEN steps.
So, what would be best? I would suggest the concerned community members of each segment form at least a working relationship. To accomplish this, each group as enumerated, (you know who is and who isn't..like that) must initially form a within itself a committee that will have dialogue with the other two.
Meet often over these concerns and see what happens. Give and take HAS to be better than all this name calling and useless talk that is going on now. It will take REAL leaders. It's gotta be time to set aside all the crap that is flying around now. Folks accusing needlessly the other for this and that. If you are for affordable housing, then make your case. If you think HRI is going down the wrong road, then show your points.
Noone is getting anywhere right now with all this stuff. Simple.
So, let's do some real work with EACH OTHER to get thought this thing. Among the people of Laie and Koolauloa are leaders you all know of. Not those who THINK they are leaders, but those you all know and respect because they are the ones who make sense and most of you trust them. Look, in a few weeks this thing is gonna be in front of the media and the planning people again. Maybe in front of the City Council soon also. The way you folks represent in front all observers will determine in large part how the decisions will be made. Failure to show unity as a community either for or against this issue will give the advantage to the entity that APPEARS together. It's that simple.
In the end, we all gotta live together so we might as well work on singular problem together..yes?
aloha..
How can you dialogue with those who sidestep the issues with misinformation, disinformation, and convenient misstatements of the truth? Respect, support, fairness, are all two way streets. Some think that open dialogue is productive. Some may think that honest and open dialogue just gets in the way of achieving your ambitions. Some want to get you talking (and while you were distracted, they pull an end around). Some talk and talk and talk until you begin to question their sincerity and fall asleep. And while you were sleeping.... Which one closest resembles HRI, leader in the push to develop? LCA? Opponents?
Anonymous, I suggest dialogue since it is the only realistic option. I mean like, how is it working now? It's not. So, While some, like you, will feel it a useless path to take, others may feel otherwise. I never said you had to dialogue with those you already detest, but maybe better with your own like-minded people. The point here is that to be in opposition to a well organized machime, you, as the opposition had better be organized also. In fact, i would say MORE SO; since they are firing on all cylinders already. But to sit back and play like there is no hope and all we can do is snipe here and there...sorry, that is the last thing that will work and is a waste of time..everyone's time. Have some optimism. Try to at least put together a "united front" that will be recognized as a force to be reckoned with. You'd be surprised what things come from people working TOGETHER in a common cause. Laie folks have long been used to a successful football tradition at Kahuku..it is all team work. It's the start of the second half..better get started.
To allow Hawaii Reseerves to develop a new community in Malaekahana is to allow HRI to leave an old wife who has been abused, used and lied to. HRI cannot be allowed to get a new trophy wife. No ways. HRI needs to wipe up the mess in Laie FIRST. Even the new trophy wife is now smart enough to get a pre-nuptial agreement in case HRI repeats its bad behavior.
August 19, 2009 3:36 PM
Blogger makani said...
--- Give and take HAS to be better than all this name calling and useless talk that is going on now. It will take REAL leaders. It's gotta be time to set aside all the crap that is flying around now.
----- All the comments may be crap to you but when I browse through it, they tell me a very sickening pattern of arrogance, deceit, and speaking through both side of the mouth.
---- If these things do not wake Laie up, I don't know what will.
----- The glory if God is intelligence or light and truth.
Do your homework first. And then decide.
Mufi Hannemann where are you? said...
HRI needs to wipe up the mess in Laie FIRST.
Truer words have yet to be spoken.
Sorry "Mufi said" blogger, you still don't get what i am saying. What is meant by 'crap' is referring to all the back and forth banter and emotion WASTED instead of utilizing the intelligence/energy to further the argument either for or against. It would prosper the foes of HRI to confront the issue(s) together as a cohesive unit rather than all the little "shouts" we see and hear now. As HRI is organized, so should the "other side" be. As I stated earlier, this whole thing is going to be played out in several venues that will allow officials AND the public to form a more concrete opinion.
It can only benefit the opponents of this developement to be organized. Meet and see what issues are really important. Become an intelligent force to be dealt with. MAKE all the potential observers see that there is true opposition. The "one by one" trips to lash out at the podium means nothing if there is not a substantially recognized organized effort behind it all. The opponents of this project are now confronted with a real battle. How it is approached will determine the outcome. Would you rather say that "we did it?" or maybe say "wow, what happened?" Check it out. It's not that hard. There ARE natural leaders amongst you. Get them up and started. I hope this makes it a little clearer. But if you wanna do the same thing, 'as up to you..
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/tell-a-friend/526082
2:59 pm PDT, Aug 20, "Kimo" K., Hawaii
I love the Polynesian Cultural Center! The Polynesian Cultural Center will lose its patrons to Paradise Cove if the traffic continues to get worse. Why bother to drive up to another cement city? Hawaii Reserves must not be allowed to build a ritzy NEW COMMUNITY there. The affordable housing will NOT be 'affordable' to the Laie residents. HRI's Greed is the impetous here and will destroy Laie. Already there is a lot of animosity among residents in and out of the church. On top of this, this excessive EnvisionLaie destroys what is in place for the Hawaii General Plan, Ko'olauloa Sustainable Communities Plan and yes, the recent Hawaii 2050 Plan.It's absurd.
Straight Talker ecnomist Paul Brewbaker:
"We are at a fork in the road with respect to patterns of urbanization, energy alternatives and agricultural futures. It is difficult to predict the outcome. I can guarantee you that if you pave over the best place to grow anything, you won't have an ag option.
It doesnt' cost us anything today to leave it as it is"
He was talking about Hoopili - a new development of 12,000 homes in Ewa. Same reason is good for Malaekahana.
Makani, I get your point. Malo.
There are more people who are against this than for it. Just look at those people in the yellow shirts. They are all the same management or missionaries and same followers.Maybe they'll get a promotion or a pat on their shoulders from the boss.
HRI has no credibilty - no surprise here. So, Eric Beaver is now keeping quiet and pushing Pane Meatoga to the front.
LCA? Pane is just a rubber-stamp for HRI. He gave away the shop long time ago.
BYU's new president wore his first aloha shirt at the neighborhood board meeting according to his BYu employees. He treated them bad and so they don't like his 'ohana' talk now that he needs campus support. He's now to some young students.
The truth will come out.
You asked about who the natural leader is for Laie. I would say Kent Fonoimoana. He has the chutzpah and the guts to be a strong advocate for Laie residents. HRI and Pane hate gut and is desperately trying to demonize and marginalize him - that's how you know he's been effective.
It's up to the people of Laie to decide what they want.
"Mufi said", it is good to hear those words from you. I agree Mr. Fonoimoana would be a good leader. I have known him and his family since they moved to Laie from Lanikai/Kailua back when. If what you say is true, that the Laie folks are mostly against this project, then it should be easy to defeat. I would still espouse as a reality the principle of an organized opposition to meet the same of the other side. While according to your observations, they appear to be weak. However,for the public,they have a strong "appearance" of a good organization. Sad, but that alone may be good enough. I cannot emphasize enough that those against this developement NEED to be organized also. IT IS TIME to confront power with power. Do not assume that because they have the resources and numbers that they will make a clean sweep. They on the other hand are counting on NO (real)opposition, other than the "one up, one down" emotional plea from the microphone that we are all used to by now. Get you guys' opposition organized and it will shock the hell outta them. Since you have a good natural leader, get behind him and start having meetings, passing out flyers, talking it up..etc. Before you know it, you guys will be a feared smooth working machine that NOONE expected. I am sure there are other able people who stand with Mr. Fonoimoana. Get them also. Anyways..be positive. talofa
makani - why don't YOU take a stand? Talk is cheap, you know.
maybe you work for PCC or BYU-H. OK.
I understand. You know Mufi understands Laie politics. No one knows how you vote in the ballot box.
" Since you have a good natural leader, get behind him and start having meetings, passing out flyers, talking it up..etc. Before you know it, you guys will be a feared smooth working machine that NOONE expected. I am sure there are other able people who stand with Mr. Fonoimoana. Get them also. Anyways..be positive. talofa"
Eh Makani, you sure you not one mole for HRI? You want to know the opposition so their temple recommends can be taken away?
I give you one answer if you like know. The opposition could be your worker next to you but they no like tell you their true feelings. That is how Laie has to operate.
I think that others who may be qualified should be mentioned here as well. It took a lot for Allan Oleole to speak the truth at the 07/30/'09 meeting in La'ie (despite his past affiliation with BYU). He has past community experience.
"Mufi"
It's up to the people of Laie to decide what they want.
This is exactly what Laie is all about. They think of themselves and they think they are better than any one else. They think they are above the law. Because they think they are big and have the money, they can bully people around and manipulate to get what they want. Pretty crooked.
Laie Boy said: "why don't YOU take a stand? Talk is cheap, you know."
Also, "maybe you one mole"..
Niiiice..nothing like a good shot of paranoia and fear. That really helps. Sure, talk can be cheap, but making groundless assumptions about someone obviously trying to offer good advice is less than cheap. In the real world we call that stupid. Mole? riiight..Sorry, I don't think this thing has gone the way of the "Bourne Identity". in case you haven't noticed, this is all about a developement. I, while having been a part of the koolauloa community since 1960 no longer live in that district. Therefore it would be against most folks view for me to "take a stand" as you suggest. I can, however, offer help in the way I am attempting to. Should the members of the community, and Mr. Fonoimoana and other leaders decide to organize, I will absolutely be open to assist in any way possible. Maybe then you might have your fears allayed. As long as there are folks with meaningless comments like yours, we all realize that this thing can go nowhere. As I said before, be positive. Let's stop the all the unneccesary chatter that holds the effort in limbo. If this thing is gonna be beat, it wouldn't have been helped by suspicion and fear. malo e' lei lei
We'll wait and see. We don't think Mufi Hannemann is stupid enough to allow HRI to ruin his political career by subverting established rules and ordinances.
Whether HRI likes it or not, they are not above the law or a community unto itself.
But if Mufi succumbs to pressure, you can expect there will be lawsuits coming.
Hawaii wrote:
A lot of people voiced concern over traffic and congestion on the roads. Envision Laie has information on its site regarding traffic. Check it out, http://envisionlaie.com/2009/08/laie-traffic-...
CLUELESS! A Joke!
How are they going to bring in building stuff ? For so many people ? Food daily for BYU, Foodland & Fastfood ? Toothpaste ? Paper ? Basics ? Will be tons of trucks daily!
How about bringing things in by Helicopter & Canoe ?
Mormons not make their weekly runs to Wallmart & Cosco ? Please!
Bringing in tons of kids on our North Shore beaches will keep $$$ tourists away!
Dec Laie flood and sewer spills, we could eat fish for a month! No water for our farmers.
Grant wrote:
Envision Laie might have been more believable if HRI/PCCV/BYUH/LDS had brought in Economic Development experts instead of a mainland Marketing company to talk to the community. That oversight shows the true colors of the "Gang of Four". Its not about jobs and prosperity in Laie, it all about money and profit.
Hawaii Reserves, Envision Laie is now down to hiding behind some BYU-Hawaii students.
BYU-Hawaii, the Polynesian Cultural Center and Hawaii Reserves don't have much support from their own workforce any more. They have been burnt, treated badly and they are getting cynical and weary.
The next group to con is the students and young generation because they don't know their parents and grandparents have been conned.
Notice how the consultants are using a few BYU-Hawaii people to push their PR campaign now in Facebook and other channels.
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/preserve-mal...
Is it true that some opponents of this developement plan who are members of the church getting reprimanded and threatened for their stance? I find that reprehensive and shouldn't be tolerated at all if true. To those who have experienced this, I suggest the following. Keep a record of the instance. Make sure it includes the time, date and individual(s) involved. If reprimanded, ask if you might receive a written reprimand. This should not be happening in the church ever. Discipline in the church can only occur for the commission of a sin. I hope someone gets this info to the church headquarters. Sorry for those who have received this treatment. I just heard about it. Aloha..
For Makani:
I was reading through this blog and I found comments on your question about questionable authority cross-overs in Laie politics.
Here is one. There are more in this blog - I'm sure there are plenty of people in Laie who don't talk about these things. But times are changing 'cause information is shared more efficiently.
-----------------------------------
Anonymous I love Laie said...
LDS.org is the website to get the official teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Any angle you look at it, it smells. The 3 ecclesiastical leaders in Laie under the HRI President - 2 work for HRI and 1 is HRI fan who has warned members not to criticize HRI. I don't think this can smell any worse because there are a lot of good humble men in Laie who can do the work.
You want to be objective but it's hard not to be suspicious and cynical. The HRI CEO should not be the Stake President. There is be too much conflict of interest especially for those who are too ambitious and vindictive. I'm glad this is going to be sent to Salt Lake because these issues are real. I believe there will be improvement in Laie with spirituality and freedom when there is a separation between church and community issues.Right now, the situation is not good.
June 1, 2009 11:59 AM
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/preserve-malaekahana-and-gunstock-ranch-ag-land
Notice that some declined to reveal their names. They must live in Laie. Yes? No? I really hope that Mufi Hannemann, the city council and the land use commission take time to understand the level of intimidation that controls Laie. Very very scary.agulk
Thanks for the info anonymous. I have read thru the previous posts. I think the people need to understand that the leaders are not always right, and that INCLUDES issues of true ecclesiastic bearing. Even Brigham Young taught: "I am afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God, whether they are led by Him." Discourses of Brigham Young. In other words, not all leaders are led by God. AND if they are not actimg "Godly" in their actions, then then you know for sure that they are not. Think about it, Jesus himself never threatened and coerced non-believers to follow him. Not to get all preachy..but I wanted to say something that addressed the things some are going thru in the way they are being treated by their leaders. Even later..Ezra T. Benson said.."Respect the position NOT the man". Maybe we gotta look at it that way..alohas...
Makani, you spot on.
Present organization in Laie:
Eric Beaver HRI CEO = Stake President
Steve Hoag -HRI Assistant =Bishop
George Reid -HRI Management=Bishop
David Orme = HRI Worshipper - Bishop
Would you agree that this circle of ecclesiastical power appears overly incestuous? Laie scratches its heads - there are plenty other men to pick from.
Why these men?
People who work for BYU, PCC need a temple recommend.
Who gives the temple recommend? These bishops and Stake Presidency
There is a question about sustaining your church leaders.
If you oppose HRI, can a ego maniac or arrogant or vindictive person in power accuse you of not supporting your church leaders?
See the obvious conflict of interest in this?
You see why Laie has two levels of conversations?
One public and one underground.
It is very terrifying that people have to live in this type of condition in this age.
I think someone needs to let the headquarters know about this?
I live in Laie and I am excited to be able to afford to continue living here. Property values are skyrocketing so fast that only wealthy foreigners a affording to buy us out!!!!!!!!
Right on Real News. I hate to talk about the religious angle, but it IS an issue that needs to be addressed. I have watched several instances where the church leaders in Laie wre hand picked because of their occupational status. From H. Stone in the 60's (Zion's); W. Cravens in the 70's-80's (PCC) and now this. I could go on and on, but why belabor the obvious. What some might call the "Lord's annointed" we can correctly call the "man appointed". This monopolistic hold on both temporal and ecclesiastic matters in Laie is nothing new. It's come down to this. The people in the current leadership's view is that the "people" had better "toe the line". They twist things that make it appear to the rest that anyone who opposes their intents are apotate and against the "Lord''s anointed". The scriptures call this style of leadership "priestcraft". In meaning..to persecute those who do not follow their commands/wishes. Satanic in nature, this practice is vehemently spoken against in all recorded christian history. Using the pulpit or the name of the priesthood to further any agenda is wrong if (punitive) force or COERCION is applied. When you see this happening you will know for sure that YOUR leaders are in error. Sad, but sometimes the so called leaders "set themselves up as a light unto the world" and ignore the voice of the people. Happens all the time. One would not expect to see in Laie. Malo e' lei lei.
I don't understand why LDS headquarters allow this. Do they know?
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I live in Laie and I am excited to be able to afford to continue living here. Property values are skyrocketing so fast that only wealthy foreigners a affording to buy us out!!!!!!!!
August 28, 2009 8:47 PM
Hope your excitement stays up for a long long time. People have waited 20 years. Where is it?
Plenty local people buying. Prices low. Good interest rate. Plenty foreclosures.
Read this in the Star Bulletin::
Koolauloa Board 28
Honolulu, H
Hauula Neighborhood Board Member RICHARD FALE ramrod the vote for HRI's plan on July 30, 2009. Fale flew off the next day to the Middle East. He is still gone. The Neighborhood Board Commission must require candidates to disclose their ability to serve. It is dishonest to play games like this. No one is indispensable. He needs to be replaced with someone else who can attend meetings in person.
Whazup said: "I don't understand why church headquarters allows this. Do they know?"
Of course they know. This type of behavior in the church is rampant, especially when it comes to business. Ask the tribes in Arizona about how well the (l.d.s. owned) Peabody Coal Co. treated them. Currently the church is in empire building mode. While always citing the need to "increase the kingdom", they alllow little regard for the inhabitants of any project they engage in. oh yeah..i know that there is some good happening, but overall, the locals always end up on the short end. Notice how "priveleges" are given only in return for a full tithing. It's ok to follow the law of tithing, but i think it's a little overboard for the leadership to demand it. There was a time in the church when the leadership was equal to the membership. It was NOT a top-down military type of leadership model. People now aspire to become a leader. Like climbing a corporate ladder. You may call it that if you wish and not be wrong.
The problem with religio-business, is that when the two (2) entities are under the same roof, they cannot help but become entwined, as we see here in this case. When a leader tells or even asks you to not criticize anything, he or she has overstepped the bounds of a true Christian religion. It's called "unrighteous dominion" and has no place amongst a people calling themselves "one". Yeah, you can bet that the church headquaters knows all about these things. Will they do anything about it? Not likely. The church is not into being embarassed. Watch and see. aloha
We need affordable housing. After sorting through all the comments on this blog, all I see is a bunch of finger pointing and hate. If you don't trust HRI to build affordable housing, then who do you trust? What is your plan? Does anyone out there have a decent alternative in mind?
One other thing...I know Eric Beaver to be an honorable man. The personal attacks are false.
OMG, look at the Laie Shopping Center! This shopping center has millions of lights. HRI must want Laie to look like Las Vegas! The airport runway leading to the Temple and now this ugly shopping center. CRAZY.
HAWAII RESERVES EMPLOYEE KELA MILLER sure didn't waste time. She followed explicit instructions and nominated PRimacio as chair and others followed.
The Neighborhood Board #28 has been sold to Hawaii Reserves.
http://www.honolulu.gov/nco/nb28/09/28200907Min.PDF
KOOLAULOA NEIGHBORHOOD BOARD NO. 28
DRAFT REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
THURSDAY, JULY 9, 2009
HAU’ULA COMMUNIT CENTER
CALL TO ORDER: Chair Pro-Tem Norman Kaluhiokalani called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. with a quorum of eight (8) of 11 members present. Note—This 11 member Board requires six (6) members for a quorum and to take official Board action.
Members Present: Richard Fale, Moana Kalua’u, Norman Kaluhiokalani, Jimmy Leonardi, Dee Dee Letts, Creighton Mattoon, Kela Miller and Junior Primacio.
Members Absent: John Elkington, Dotty Kelly-Paddock, and Les Steward.
Guests: Steven Goldsberry (University of Hawaii), Diana Hoppe, Fran Corcoran (Kahuku Library), John Olszowka, Barbara Kahana (Hauula Community Association), Bryan Mick (Mayor’s Representative/Neighborhood Commission Office), Beatriz Rodriguez, Al Tachibana, and Jeff Berg (University of Hawaii National Children’s Study), Vincent Shigekuni, Lieutenant John Cheong (Honolulu Police Department), Kayla Overton and Captain Mario Munroy (U.S. Army), Major Alan Crouch and Linda Read (Marine Corps Base Hawaii), Mark Cunningham and Tim Vandeveer, Kirk Peterson, Buddy Ako (Kahuku Community Association), Sam Caban (Kahuku Village Association), Lea Albert (Department of Education), Wren Wescoatt (First Wind), Dede Heron and Sisiofa Tiuefi Heron (Punaluu Community Association), Barry Usagawa (Board of Water Supply), Captain Ed Kealoha (Honolulu Fire Department), Bill Racoma, Christine Chaplin, Norman Ogasawaru and Albert Chong (State Civil Defense), Delsa Moe, Mike Sakata (Councilmember Dela Cruz’s Office), Kaulana Park (Governor’s Representative), Leland S.M. Ribac (Neighborhood Commissions Office).
BOARD ORGANIZATION:
Election of Chair, Vice Chair, Secretary, Treasurer:
Chair: Mattoon nominated Letts, Miller nominated Primacio. Letts received two (2) votes (Letts and Mattoon). Primacio was ELECTED Chair with six (6) votes (Fale, Kalua’u, Kaluhiokalani, Leonardi, Miller and Primacio).
If you would like to see Gunstock Ranch and Malaekahana Agricultural lands protected and preserved from Envision's Laie suburban development proposal, please copy and paste this petition site link and sign our on going petition to preserve Gunstock Ranch and Malaekiahana.
PLEASE SIGN ONLINE PETITION, FORWARD, AND EMAIL TO ALL FRIENDS AND FAMILY!
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/preserve-malaekahana-and-gunstock-ranch-ag-land
THANKS FOR YOUR SUPPORT!
btfive wrote:
I mentioned in my post which was deleted that 'if every family has as many children as possible, there will never be enough growth.' Some how that was taken as a racist, vulgar, or a personal attack. I just consider it a rational observation.
09/07/2009 3:42:17 a.m.
---------------------------------
ReadDaFinePrint wrote:
"Delsa Moe, director of cultural presentation at PCC, said the plan reflects what the community wants and it allows for controlled growth, which is necessary to sustain the La'ie economy.
"I fear if BYU and PCC are not allowed the opportunity to grow that I might lose my job," Moe said. "I might have to move. The future for my children would be bleak."
This is very high-temperature fever from the Laie Swamp. This is as pathetic as it gets.The new Laie Theatre must show the movie "THE VILLAGE". It is very disingenous for Hawaii Reserves and Brigham Young Univeristy to use threats and fear of closing to collect community support. Many people in Laie do not work for these entities. They are much better off. YES you can. So you want to sentence your children's future to working for PCC? Where is the ambition? Where is the thinking out of the box? PLEASE. You live in the Laie Village but "the village" doesn't have to be in you..
09/07/2009 3:37:09 a.m.
ReadDaFinePrint
-------------------------------------
NoBullAloha wrote:
Replying to TrialsRider:
Replying to kopeterson79:
UH Manoa has 320 ACRES with hundreds of courses,degrees,housing units, and 20,000 STUDENTS ENROLLED. BYU has 204 ACRES with only 2,000 STUDENTS ENROLLED. Even if they EXPANDED to 4,000 STUDENTS, 204 acres should be more than ENOUGH LAND based on UH Manoa's 20,000 STUDENTS. THEY DON'T NEED ANYMORE LAND!
LOL! You're kidding, right?! You want 8+ story buildings like Manoa out in the country? Manoa is no shining example of campus good planning - it's a crowded and extremely dense. I know, I went to school there.
Is BYU-Hawaii going to have 20,000 students? If not, no need for 8t storey buildings. Knee-jerk ridiculous reactions to suggestions is not cool. Aloha.
09/06/2009 8:36:27 p.m.
NoBullAloha wrote:
Replying to kanikani:
Everyone knows there is a pent up need for housing in Koolauloa. There are multiple families living in single houses, people renting garages, illegal structures etc. .
HRI/BYU still passing around the Laie kool-aid.. The EnvisionLaie survey contradicts their own pent-up sales pitch. Many Laieans live together to help pay the mortgage. Laie has lots of foreclosure. Island wide about 960 foreclosures, You want to get sucked into thi, go ahead.. AT least ask for a contract with the community. Ask what price? Is it leasehold? What other limiations? Who gets to buy into this. WHEN? Where is the subdivision map? Find people who don't work for BYU-PCC -HRI you trust and ask tquestions.. Ask your parents who don't trust HRI any more. HRI is now using the younger generation. HRI.must provide a contract to describe descriptions, maps, time-llnes, criterias and much more. Aloha.
09/06/2009 8:31:07 p.m.
Reason you have to support EnvisionLaie:
"If we do nothing, the entire region will suffer. Without BYU-Hawaii, the region would be economically devastated. We would, no doubt, lose even more longtime residents and increase traffic as more people would be forced to commute to Honolulu for work. Already, there are fewer jobs per household than most any other place on Oahu."
Response:
I hate to bust up your place as the center of the Universe --- The only town in this region that depends solely on BYU-Hawaii for low-wages employment is Laie.
Don't hyperventilate here ---- This whole region WILL NOT be devastated.
This whole region WILL be devastated if it allows BYU/HRI to bring in more Utah rich folks and traffic. We don't need vacation homes, second homes and market-price homes they want to build in Malaekahana.
PCC WILL be devastated because tourists will go to Paradise Cove.
They come because of the region's country atmosphere.
Honolulu Advertiser Comments
--------------------------------------
"Wheelwright said the project is about 85 percent of the way through the process even though actual construction could be years away."
WOW! 85%. Is Mufi Hannemann really going to part the Red Sea for Wheelwright and subvert due process?
--------------------------------------
09/07/2009 4:46:11 p.m. Compare with 2008 shutdown rationale.
The company (Hawaii Reserves) first announced its intention to pull out at a Ko'olau Loa Sustainable Communities Plan meeting on March 5. The next day, a statement by Beaver was read at a La'ie Community Association meeting.
"Feasibility estimates pose an unacceptable risk at this time," Beaver said in the statement. "Cost of the entitlement process, current market and political conditions, moderate community support, and other nearby residential development plans were key factors in our decision to stop the project."
Beaver told The Advertiser yesterday that a combination of factors would have resulted in homes that would cost more than the citizens who were to benefit from it could pay.
For one, the land's zoning had to be changed, a three-step process that could have taken five to 10 years, he said. On top of that, the cost of the land and infrastructure alone was estimated at $200 million, Beaver said. That translates into more than $363,000 per house for the 550 homes.
"Delsa Moe, director of cultural presentation at PCC, said the plan reflects what the community wants and it allows for controlled growth, which is necessary to sustain the La'ie economy.
"I fear if BYU and PCC are not allowed the opportunity to grow that I might lose my job," Moe said. "I might have to move. The future for my children would be bleak."
Mahalo for providing this opportunity to share. Comments say it all for many of us:
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20090906/NEWS0103/909060391/More+jobs++growth+of+BYUH+behind+plan+for+La+ie+s+future
WhatWasThatAbout wrote:
"NEW PLAN 1,200 new homes, along with a light industrial area and a new town that would include churches, parks, a shopping mall, bike paths and a mauka road."
( WHY NEW CHURCHES IF YOU ARE JUST DISTRIBUTING THE POPULATION OF LAIE RESIDENTS?)
"Land use change: 663 acres from agriculture to urban"
(YOU GAMBLED. HRI KNEW IT WAS ZONED AGRICULTURAL WHEN THEY THIS CASH PURCHASE.)
"The recent community meetings that created the Envision La'ie plan also built strong community support for it by including residents in the process and asking them for ideas, Wheelwright said."
( HOGWASH! JUST A FEW HOURS AND YOU CAN PLAN A NEW COMMUNITY? ATTENDANCE & PARTICIPATION DO NOT MEAN 100% SUPPORT.)
"This year the three La'ie-based entities and hundreds of residents, a majority from La'ie, planned what they thought La'ie's future should look like, creating Envision La'ie, a summary of those ideas."
(IS THIS HARVARD'S NEW MATH? "HUNDREDS OF RESIDENTS" IS MAJORITY IN A POPULATION OF 8,000?)
BE REAL
09/11/2009 4:17:15 p.m.
ReadDaFinePrint wrote:
Replying to hanaaloha:
"Well planned improvements raise our standard of living. The bypass road in Haleiwa has reduced North Shore traffic. ..... We need housing that is designed with local people in mind."
All your dreams sound good. But
1.do you go north shore way? From the bypass road to Pupukea? Choke traffic. congestion.
2.See the demolished homes in Kahuku? The people were kicked out. How many locals buying these 18 vacant lots for $299K? What now?
3. Kahuku Plantation Camp now selling for $5M. Mufi supported Continental Pacific who pledged to sell the homes to plantation workers for $75K. What now? Can Laie trust HRI? Study HRI's record. Talk is cheap.
09/10/2009 7:39:50 a.m.
Replying "hanaaloha
"Well planned improvements raise our standard of living. The bypass road in Haleiwa has reduced North Shore traffic. ..... We need housing that is designed with local people in mind.
Envision Laie was effective community planning in action, it allowed Ko’olauloa residents to identify how they want their future communities to look. If only a few of the ideas presented by the people at these workshops are approved and built then our children’s standard of living will be better as a result.
All your dreams sound good. But
1.do you go north shore way? From the bypass road to Pupukea? Choke traffic. congestion.
2.See the demolished homes in Kahuku? The people were kicked out. How many locals buying these 18 vacant lots for $299K? What now?
3. Kahuku Plantation Camp now selling for $5M. Mufi supported Continental Pacific who pledged to sell the homes to plantation workers for $75K. What now? Can Laie trust HRI? Study HRI's record. Talk is cheap.
Hey Guys! Be patient. Just a few more comments from the Advertiser comments:
NoBullAloha replied:
"Good question - who knows what it will be years from now when housing might be built . . . but guarantee residents won't be able to afford housing if it's never built."
It already sounds like a guarantee that this new project is for othere OUT OF LAIE.. Add inflation, cost-over run and desired profit for HRI, most Laie residents are already PRICED OUT.
May 2008 "Feasibility estimates pose an unacceptable risk at this time," Beaver said in the statement. ".....in our decision to stop the project."
Beaver told The Advertiser yesterday that a combination of factors would have resulted in homes that would cost more than the citizens who were to benefit from it could pay.
For one, the land's zoning had to be changed, a three-step process that could have taken five to 10 years, he said. On top of that, the cost of the land and infrastructure alone was estimated at $200 million, Beaver said. That translates into more than $363,000 per house for the 550 homes.
09/09/2009 8:46:33 p.m.
Hey guys! These comments show the other side that BYU-HRI guys don't talk about. Stay with me here. Stinking buggahs. I think Trailrider is HRI or PCC management. NoBullAloha much mahalo for comments. Go teach Pane Meatoga some.
NoBullAloha:
Utah has 3/2 homes for $175,000. They're not made of 'cheap materials' like what HRI R. Eric Beaver wants to do...It HRI says it cannot sell affordable housing for this price, HRI is greedy for big profit.
Trailrider replying:
Braddah, the median price of an Oahu home hovers around $600,000. Real estate is all about location - you're comparing apples and oranges.
NoBullAloha replying:
So what is the REALISTIC PRICE that Laie residents can afford?
I'm not comparing apples and oranges. I'm comparing homes built in Utah. It should be cheaper here because no heating and air-conditioning and basement needed. They bring in Utah contractors to build here. HRI got tMalaekahana for a song. If Hawaii Reserves is really sincere about affordable housing, walk the talk. Why should Laie residents support HRI if they will be priced out of a house? HRI can make big money from high-end homes.
09/09/2009 1:57:41 p.m.
Aloha to you all.
This blog is getting really lengthy. I suggest you start another thread or post or something. But thank you for this. I have learnt a lot from most of the comments. I think this blog is the one that has the most participant. Maybe it's because Laie residents feel free to express their thoughts here. Mahalo.
A persistent concern with the Envision Laie Plan is this. Simple put..UNANSWERED QUESTIONS. If you were ever to submit a business plan..(and i have) you need to be very detail oriented and precise as to what you want to accomplish. Numbers need to be crunched..sales predictions substantiated and so on. I know this is not really a business plan..but a submittal for approval on a substantial issue nonetheless.
Show the people if you can, and you should be able to if your plan is indeed workable, the following at minimum.
Jobs? how many. the skills needed. Are you planning to contract out-of-state? Use Hawaii labor union workers? Employ local folks?
Housing prices? At least an approximate amount of what it will cost the new homebuyers.
Infrastructure improvements? Time and costs? Flood zone abatement? What about a bond for flood insurance?
Peripheral concerns..Hospital upgrades? School expansion?
Kuleana lands? Will people be moved off to accomodate growth? Will there still be room for agricultural use and where? How much will that cost for those who want to do that? What about the resources? What is the water table capacity currently? What levels need to be maintained to support this expansion? I am sure there are many who can add to this list of questions.
My point is that you CANNOT make any hard decisions with any type of confidence if there are real and meaningful questions that have failed to be addressed. Which in turn means that you cannot plausibly support anyone who cannot answer..or at least has failed up to this point to answer them.
Laie and Koolauloa people..be careful where you are lead. izz ok to follow ..but following blindly is a whole 'nada matter..TALOFA!
Steven Wheelwright of BYU-Hawaii's talk of needing Malaekahana for expansion or BYU-Hawaii will suffer is a fallacy.
I looked at the map and I drove around the BYU-Hawaii campus.
There IS sufficient room for BYU-Hawaii to expand on its existing land.
BYU-Hawaii can avoid urban sprawl easily and MUCH CHEAPER.
1. Build new dorms to 3 levels. Renovate the existing dorms to 3 levels. Soften with trees.
2. Your School of Business can be developed to 3 or 4 levels for office spaces. Soften with trees.
3. Extend the Married Student housing to 3 or 4 levels. Soften with trees.
4. There is no reason for the President's home to be in the middle of valuable campus land. Those two homes will provide space for the School of Business.
5. There is more than sufficient space behind the fence for other
improvements.
BYU-Hawaii will free up many homes in Laie, Hauula and Kahuku if it increases its student housing alone.
However, there is an inevitable consequence that the Church needs to know. Off-campus student housing has been a source of income for many property owners.
When this eases, Laie will suffer an economic downturn for those dependent on this source of income. It will create foreclosures, need for government subsidies and others.
Laie, whom many of you, refer to as the special town will be marginalized. There is a question of who will quickly have the means to buy these homes. Your little special community by your Mormon Temple will drastically take on a new flavor.
Is this what the current community of Laie envision it to be?
BYU workers and HRI workers keep seeing Pane Meatoga, president of the Laie Community Association at the
Administration Building
Hawaii Reserves Office
When is the big huncho going to start representing the community?
The other LCA board members say they don't know what's happening.
Eh, Brah you are asking why Pane the LCA President is at the BYU Administration Building and HRI Office so often.LOL.
He's learning the NEW HARVARD MATH --- look at the comments at the end.LOL
In the Honolulu Advertiser blog----
WhatWasThatAbout wrote:
---------------------------------
"This year the three La'ie-based entities and hundreds of residents, a majority from La'ie, planned what they thought La'ie's future should look like, creating Envision La'ie, a summary of those ideas." ( Steven Wheelwright)
(IS THIS HARVARD'S NEW MATH? "HUNDREDS OF RESIDENTS" IS MAJORITY IN A POPULATION OF 8,000?)
BE REAL
WhatWasThatAbout wrote:
"NEW PLAN 1,200 new homes, along with a light industrial area and a new town that would include churches, parks, a shopping mall, bike paths and a mauka road."
( WHY NEW CHURCHES IF YOU ARE JUST DISTRIBUTING THE POPULATION OF LAIE RESIDENTS?)
"Land use change: 663 acres from agriculture to urban"
(YOU GAMBLED. HRI KNEW IT WAS ZONED AGRICULTURAL WHEN THEY THIS CASH PURCHASE.)
"The recent community meetings that created the Envision La'ie plan also built strong community support for it by including residents in the process and asking them for ideas, Wheelwright said."
( HOGWASH! JUST A FEW HOURS AND YOU CAN PLAN A NEW COMMUNITY? ATTENDANCE & PARTICIPATION DO NOT MEAN 100% SUPPORT.)
"This year the three La'ie-based entities and hundreds of residents, a majority from La'ie, planned what they thought La'ie's future should look like, creating Envision La'ie, a summary of those ideas."
(IS THIS HARVARD'S NEW MATH? "HUNDREDS OF RESIDENTS" IS MAJORITY IN A POPULATION OF 8,000?)
BE REAL
Good points "whatsthatabout". But still..as I said in earlier posts..all this back and forth stuff is not really accomplishing anything tangible to defeat their (development) efforts. We need a concerted push from a real organization. Otherwise we are going nowhere. All this finger-pointing is going nowhere fast. It looks (to them) as though the opposition to the HRI plans can do nothing but this. They are not worried about this type of pointing out faults. See if we can't get one the leaders in this community to stand up and take charge. There are better ways to fight this thing than a "little bit here and a little bit there" of defamatory information. It causes little if any real fear in the development people. Hopefully things will pick up and SOMEONE will answer the bell. Aloha!
Something to Consider
In the dialogue of the past few weeks/months, there has been ample blame placed on the three (3) entities promoting this development. HRI, PCC and BYUH are merely the frontline of the real instigator here. Why not reach out and question the Church itself?
It is time for the Church to stand up and show what they know. Some have asked if the Church even knows if this is going on. I doubt that they are in the dark. The tactics employed so far are really un-christian like. Deception is NOT part of an honorable ecclesiastical body. Nor is intimidation. It is not a sin to question authority. It cannot even be labeled wrong. I think it's time to recognize the church leadership for what they are. Businessmen and Lawyers. The battle for the development will be settled by them. They will not lay down and do the right thing when there is money involved. Look at the way they REQUIRE tithing..IF you want either a position or a temple recommend. (see morm. ch.8)
The opposition to this development has some waking up to do. I am not a "anti" but i like to speak of the truth of what i see. There is a BIG diference between the church and the Gospel. i believe the gospel. I trust the gospel. IT iS truth. Ok..nuff sermon already..lol..but seriously, look further than what is being played out in front of you.. Soon you will see that they are just the puppets doing the work of the "brethren".
Their PR team has put them on local Tv and radio shows. There is already enough half-truths and arrogance on on public record.
You give HRI enough ropes, they will hang themselves.
I heard the Hawaii Public Radio on the road yesterday. It was sleazy alright. I thought Beth Ann did a good job asking questions. You could hear them them stammering over some new questions.
I especially like the one about where the Mormon Mayor Mufi Hannemann is in all this. Eric Beaver stammered and answered that the mayor's managing director knows about this. WHAT A LIE. You cannot tell me that they have not met with the Mormon Mayor themselves.
It was on the 5 pm radio show at the HPR. BYU-Hawaii Steven Wheelwright and Eric Beaver, HRI CEO was on the show.
The other one question was about hiring local contractors. Eric Beaver said he didn't know who they contracted to do the Laie shopping center renovation. LOL.
Really? He doesn't know? He recovered and then use "Pierce Construction". WHAT A LIE. They use Utah-based contractors and out of Laie contractors. They only use local contractors for emergencies and small kine jobs.
Good for you Independent Kamaaina. Laie needs an independent voice. Best of luck to you. It is communist state in Laie.
We are taught not to speak ill of church leaders but it is unfair to the people of Laie to live under this kind of rule. I know of people who have been intimidated and badly-treated so this cannot be untrue. It is a company town. I would never be able to survive in Laie.
Mormon Mayor Mufi Hannemann said...
It was on the 5 pm radio show at the HPR. BYU-Hawaii Steven Wheelwright and Eric Beaver, HRI CEO was on the show.
The other one question was about hiring local contractors. Eric Beaver said he didn't know who they contracted to do the Laie shopping center renovation. LOL.
Really? He doesn't know? He recovered and then use "Pierce Construction". WHAT A LIE. They use Utah-based contractors and out of Laie contractors. They only use local contractors for emergencies and small kine jobs.
Heh! Heh! Heh! He said he never know. It's the ENGINEER who is in charge of HRI now. Eric Beaver got caught off-guard with those questions so he had to say " I DON'T KNOW. I WILL FIND OUT FROM MY ENGINEER" Pierce Contractors was only got to go the small roof repairs job.... the manini kine. Those contractors come in unmarked trucks now.
I like to know who is contracted to do the new Marriott hotel. Moddy? Bodell? Which Utah-based company this time?
Try Jacobson Construction.
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